EPISODE 12 OF THE MARKETING SOLUTIONS PODCAST: PR AND SOCIAL MEDIA DURING A DISASTER
Sonya M.:
Lari, Larissa, thank you so much for joining me.
Larissa Harris:
Thanks for having me, Sonya.
Sonya M.:
So I think the first place I really want to start is how Facebook groups have been used across this disaster period to, I guess, communicate to people what is going on and provide support within different communities. So myself, I was at Bermagui on the south coast of New South Wales and you were up at Ulladulla and both of us at some point didn't have power, no phone reception, and not really much awareness of what was going on in the outside world because we felt very cut off. But, once I was out of that situation, things like the Bega Valley Shire Facebook page were incredibly invaluable to actually get accurate information. Did you find the same thing? What was your situation?
Larissa Harris:
Yes, it was an interesting way to start the new year without electricity, no phone contact. Social media was kind of minimal, but what happened was we were actually a Burrill Lake, which is right next to Ulladulla. We were on holiday, so we weren't part of the normal community. So we didn't really use social media to find out what was going on. We were more driving around, talking to our neighbors, things like that. But then I came back once the roads got opened, we were out of there, back to the border, Albury–Wodonga, where nearby there was the Upper Murray massive bushfires.
So they have had two rounds in the last week. We've got lots of friends there. I used to live there and we found more the local Facebook groups there. That was how the locals and the people trying to help them were finding out what they needed, where the fire was, who had suffered massive losses. Everything was coming through those Facebook groups.
Sonya M.:
Yeah. I think for me what I found amazing was that, the Bega Valley Facebook page, they were live streaming the community meetings, same with the Bermagui Facebook page as well. And the sound quality was actually amazing. I know that you said that the Corryong one you had some sound quality wasn't as great, but I think that's incredible because that's the most accurate information you can get and something that has really made me wary with social media from this, and I think perhaps for the first time, I think in the past I've always sort of looked at older generations, I mean like, "Oh, you're being ridiculous. That's not false information, blah, blah, blah." But there's a lot of stuff that I have seen floating around and we're going to touch on this in a little bit, that sort of false rumors and things that spread like, sorry, excuse the analogy, spread like wildfire across social media.
But what I love with Facebook, I think it's a really is a case of this being used as good that it prompted me to mark myself as safe. Did you get the same thing and was it for Ulladulla or Corryong?
Larissa Harris:
Yeah, I got the same thing when I was on the south coast, near Ulladulla, but my thing was like, marking yourself as safe, it's an ongoing thing. The bushfires are still going. Somebody who marked themself safe three days ago could not be safe right now.
Sonya M.:
Actually, that is so true because I think it asked me to mark myself as safe on New Year's Eve and at the time I felt pretty safe. I mean the sun didn't rise. I didn't say daylight that whole day and I'd been at the supermarket from 6:00 AM trying to get supplies, but then we lost power. Our water system was compromised so we couldn't drink from the tap. We had no internet. ABC radio dropped out in our area at some point as well. I couldn't access the fire app. The local policeman even had no idea what was going on, roads in and out were blocked off. And let me tell you, I did not feel safe at that point, but also I couldn't really jump on Facebook and mark myself as unsafe either. So you're right, it is a complete ongoing thing. It's not like, I don't know, an earthquake has happened and it's that one event and then it's done. And this is something that is going to be ongoing probably for weeks or months as well.
Back to this mention of false information that I think I saw. An example of that was that there are a lot of rumors going around. So I have rocked up at the supermarket at Bermagui at 06:30 in the morning, New Years Eve to try and get suppliers because we thought things like water would totally be sold out and we were right, everything sold really quickly. But we rocked up and there were people sort of going around being like, "Oh, the supermarket's not opening today, they can't get stuff." And so I jumped on Facebook and the same things were being said and people from out of town as well who had planned to come into town to get supplies, then didn't because they thought the supermarket wasn't open because of these posts on Facebook.
The people at Bermagui and the manager there at that Woolworths is absolutely incredible, they managed to get stuff in, they were open from 8:00 AM but with these posts going up on Facebook, a lot of people thought, "Well okay, I can't get anything." And so they didn't go when there was a chance. Did you see anything like that happen with Corryong at all?
Larissa Harris:
Yes. That's been interesting looking at the Upper Murray Bushfire Relief Page on Facebook, I believe it's called. So it was all a bit of a mess you might say to start off with, everyone was posting things, there was posts everywhere. I had to teach my mom who was really following it, how to change it so it was actually the recent posts, not the most liked or commented posts that were coming up because they were days old. So she was getting really confused. She wasn't looking at when they were actually posted. So, one of the things that happened was a wonderful woman who I unfortunately can't remember her name, took over as admin and actually said, "I'm making sure that all these posts come through me."
So she kind of grouped them to be like, "Here's where all the help is, here's all the traffic things," everything like that. And it's much more organized, much easier to see. She's even got a very good look of, her posts all have pictures that are basically an infographic that shows the main information and it just looks way neater. Everyone can kind of trust her a bit more than people were just putting up anything and then arguing with each other about if it was true or not. And that was really confusing. One thing that happened was that someone posted saying Corryong will be abandoned by emergency services, so police and fire and everything like that. And everyone came back and said, "What are you saying that we're going to be abandoned? This is one of the major communities of that area."
So that was a bit of false information that took a while to come through as what was actually happening. But I think that's just part of a disaster. Everyone's just really stressed. Everyone kind of goes to the worst possible scenario.
Sonya M.:
Yeah. I think the thing that scares me though is that it has the ability to spread so much faster than what it used to. Say a rumor had gone around, I don't know, 15 years ago, you'd have to go and talk to neighbors and then it would spread by word that way. But yeah, I don't know, things like my aunt for example, she just absolutely spent hours in these Facebook groups around the Tumbarumba Shire region and it made things worse for her because she's like, "I'm going to lose my home." There are a lot of people in there that were obviously scared, things were sensationalized.
And I think it's that fine balance in a disaster between giving people enough information, but I then think making sure you're getting information from the right sources as well. So making sure it's from those live streams and official community representatives rather than random people just posting. And I think this is a big lesson that comes back to everything on social media, because I think if we see the same content over and over again and we start to believe that it's true and there might not actually be truth to it. I think something that I found interesting in terms of marketing PR is the companies that jumped on board really quickly. So Telstra for example, announced really early on, I think it was New Year's Day that they were going to give free phone bills for I think for two months to any fireys.
Larissa Harris:
I think it's fireys and people who have lost their homes or had been affected. Yeah.
Sonya M.:
Amazing. And then we've got the tennis players that are donating money for ACEs. And let me just say, hasn't this come at a great time for Nick Kyrgios? I think these bushfires have been an absolute PR godsend for him. Even the Betoota Advocate have picked up on that and I don't know if you guys saw the post on Betoota Advocate, you can go and find it on their Instagram or Facebook page. But here's the headline. It said, "Nick Kyrgios glad to have redeemed himself in the eyes of Barry from," how do I say that? Capalaba?
Larissa Harris:
I'm so sorry if we said that wrong.
Sonya M.:
And the caption, "I always knew he was a good kid." So the retiree who had previously had sought the same turnaround from Leighton in the late nineties. So let's talk about this for a second because we all loved the Betoota Advocate. It is hilarious. But you are so naive to think that this is a post that is organic. This has come from a PR company. It has been a paid post to really improve his reputation.
Larissa Harris:
Yeah, it's been really interesting watching everybody jump on board, which I'm kind of conflicted about because on the one hand, raising money, amazing. Like how much money? I was just listening to the radio and they've already up to like $700 million, this bushfires cost them so far, and that's just estimating, it's still going. They can't even get into places they actually, that's probably just a low estimate. But how much money they've raised, Celeste Barber's fund is up to probably about 45, 50 million by now. And things like that have just been amazing for raising money for all these organizations and fundraising and helping people in affected areas.
now it kind of feels like a pile on, it feels like every celebrity, famous person. We've got Pink and Chris Hemsworth's just pledged $1 million. We've got all the international celebrities that maybe have a connection to Australia or just are seeing it on social media and now everyone's on board. It's kind of losing its effect. And I think going through my newsfeed and seeing all the stories, probably 50% about how much people are donating and 50% about the actual bushfires and people who have suffered to them. I don't know. It just makes me feel a bit cringy that they're getting the good publicity and we're not focusing on the people who've lost their whole livelihoods, their properties, their cattle, their everything. They're not getting the main stories.
Sonya M.:
Yeah, and I think on that note as well, and something that we have observed is that the people that are close to the bushfires are really focusing on the impact and how we can help directly, right?
Larissa Harris:
Exactly.
Sonya M.:
The people that are further away are really going on a witch hunt politically, which I'm super, super fed up with. I mean, I think there's a time and a place to be having these conversations. The time is not now though. Let's get these issues sorted first at the immediate problem, then we can look back in hindsight and have these conversations, but I don't know. What is the best way to sort of circumnavigate this situation where it's celebrities that are really trying to build their own profile and they're setting up their own funding links, right? At the end of the day there are direct funding links to people like the RFS. Is that the solution? Would they be doing it if they couldn't raise their own profile in some way?
And I don't think I've ever been in this mindset before, but to be honest, I feel like I've got beef with Celeste Barber. Now, don't get me wrong, full disclaimer, I think it is amazing that she's raised so much money but, and I don't normally comment politically, but I actually feel like this is a scenario where I'm for once very, very informed. So, a few days ago she, by the time you're listening to this, it's probably a week. She was putting up a series of Instagram stories really, really going after politicians and ScoMo. But then I got to an Instagram story where she has a photo of her husband sitting there on the phone and it says, "On the phone to his mum in Eden."
So, Eden's not that far from Bermagui. I was very across the news, very across what was happening in this local community. Then she goes on to say, "They are cooking and wetting down their houses, doing all they can to keep themselves safe." She said, "There has been no government presence, no helicopters. They've been left and forgotten about. There was no evacuation center, no firefighters because of lack of funding. Scott Morrison, how fucking dare you?" I'm sorry I had to actually call her out on this because this is all completely false information.
It was impossible to get helicopters up because of the smoke, you have not seen anything like this before. It did not become daylight while we were down there at all. No daylight because of the smoke. There were police everywhere. There were fireys out fighting fires. They weren't actually in Eden and at this point, the fire wasn't that close to Eden. It did get to the point as well that they evacuated all of the small towns and set up two evacuation centers, one in Merimbula and one in Bega, which are the two key sort of centers along that stretch of coast so they could make sure that everyone was safe and they could provide power, internet, food, water, whatever supplies were needed in a centralized location.
Celeste Barber's mom refused to leave, and I don't know what she expected, but it seems like she wanted her own personal firetrucks sitting out the front of her house, I think it's completely selfish of her and I think it is so wrong of Celeste Barber to be spreading false information like this and perpetuating a witch hunt. And I think this really sparked more conversations online from people who, again, weren't there and were completely misinformed.
So you and I are part of a Facebook group for another podcast that's massive and people were really, really praising Celeste. They were talking about, "Oh, how could they abandon her mum?" Blah, blah, blah. But then comments were popping up such as, "Oh, Celeste should decide where this money goes. Celeste, I really hope that the government doesn't take all of this money."
Larissa Harris:
There was even like a Australian of the Year, there was, "Celeste should be our prime minister", things like that. I was, yeah, a bit confused like you.
Sonya M.:
Yeah, and I think it's definitely a situation where she's used her influence for good, but at the same time there's been a lot of false information that has been spread and when these conversations start happening in these Facebook groups, it just perpetuates and it becomes beyond a rumor. In people's mind, it becomes fact and I don't know, how do you address that? You can't, she has really jumped on board the bandwagon of basically throwing people under the bus now to raise her own public profile.
Larissa Harris:
I think the effect of Celeste using her mother in law's situation kind of made people who didn't have family or friends, like we had family and friends directly impacted by the bushfires who were evacuating, who were fighting fires, defending their homes and everything. I think for the people maybe in the capital cities who didn't have that connection, she provided that connection. So, she was providing that person for them to feel really worried about that one person. Whereas we were worried about our own people. So, we're viewing that as maybe a bit extravagant to maybe focus on one person's situation, but I guess if it had the effect of raising so much money, was it okay to do that?
Sonya M.:
I think it's okay to be talking about her mother-in-law's situation. I don't think it's okay to be telling blatant mistruths, to be honest. If she hadn't have told those blatant mistruths, would we have raised that much money? That's the question as well. So I think really Celeste has pulled off the biggest PR marketing spin ever. And at the end of the day she has done it for good. We've raised a lot of money and I just need to get over the fact that she's lied to do it.
Larissa Harris:
We need to stop being cynical.
Sonya M.:
I know. And that's the thing, like I think you and I are both so cynical because we come from the background. You've worked in these PR situations a lot. At the end of the day it's been used for good and so we need to get over it. And I think a lot of people would look at marketing in that sense as well, as in a lot of things, it's sort of polished up in a way that might not necessarily be completely true to achieve a goal.
Larissa Harris:
Yeah.
Sonya M.:
All right. Let's move on from Celeste. Well done Celeste for raising so much money. That's amazing, hope your mother-in-law's okay. I found it really interesting that this has changed my media consumption habits massively. So previously in my mind ABC was very much for the boomers.
Larissa Harris:
I agree.
Sonya M.:
And I was never really attracted to any news sites, particularly The Project I love. But that's about it, to be honest with you. But having looked at the comparison with reporting across the different channels and things, I have so much admiration for the ABC now. The way that these people have spent so much time in these affected areas. I know that a lot of towns and things were mispronounced, but they're trying their hardest. Telangana, not Telangana, Telangana.
Larissa Harris:
It took me a long time to actually work out what towns they were actually talking about.
Sonya M.:
Yeah. But I think that they're so professional and it's so facts driven and it's made me really aware that a lot of other news providers now, they're so sensationalized and click-baity.
Larissa Harris:
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And the fact that ABC is along everything, it's on the radio, it's on the TV, it's on social media, it's online, everything and you're getting the same kind of really serious information. That's the one we're all turning to to find out exactly what's happening. They go around every half hour, every hour to every single bushfire. It gets very repetitive, I must say, like we had the TV on. We had friends of ours evacuate to our house for the last few days.
Sonya M.:
Same.
Larissa Harris:
Yeah. And that's what we were watching the whole time, which you start to be like, "Okay, we've already heard this", but that's the ones that they have the emergency warnings as soon as they come through and everything like that. They are the ones that have no nonsense about what's happening. They're not just going to ads, they're not trying to, like the last few days they have moved on to actually including sport again, kind of everyone forgot about all sport. No cricket was happening.
Sonya M.:
Thank God. I think this has been a big lesson in, we all need to really take note of the sources of information that we're actually listening to and taking as truth, even if you see the same information over and over again and conversations are happening about it, it doesn't necessarily mean something is true. So for me it's been a big lesson around making sure you've got the facts right and doing your own research from reputable sources. I think it has shown how social media can be used for good and bad. And I think Facebook in this situation has really brought it back down to community. It's been used in the way that it was intended in the first place, which I think is amazing and I think it's going to result in a lot of older generations who've really been against Facebook previously, to now jump on board because it has been such an incredible tool for people to stay connected, informed at a really local level that the news outlets cannot provide you with. What lessons have you sort of learned from a marketing PR point of view from this whole situation?
Larissa Harris:
From a more kind of personal, I guess, and local approach, I found that the locals really use social media as another form of communication. So when they lost electricity, for example, in the [inaudible 00:21:21] Corryong area, they lost electricity. Basically, they've lost their wifi, there's no phone service because one of the towers went down. So, one of our friends who was stuck at her house, her father and brother and neighbors were all fighting the fires to save their homes. She could turn on the generator at their house and they had a satellite dish, luckily. So she actually, the only way she could communicate with people was through Facebook and through Facebook Messengers and stuff. And that's how we found out they were actually still okay, which was amazing. Just another form of communication.
Because when these disasters happen, just all your different forms of communication start to disappear. So you maybe didn't have a radio. So for example, on the coast we were on holidays, we're at a Airbnb, they didn't have a radio that wasn't plugged in to the electricity. We didn't have a radio. One thing that I'm now adding to my car in my first aid kit is definitely a radio powered by batteries because you have no idea what's happening other than if you're just sitting in your car. Which because we're in an area that all the petrol stations close, was a bit of a drama because we didn't want to waste our petrol in case we needed it to get out.
From a PR perspective, I think the businesses, even small businesses, I live in the central west of New South Wales and even our local like coffee shops, local boutiques have jumped on board and done 100% of profits or all coffees sold that day are going to go to the bushfire fund, or we're selling paintings that will a hundred percent get donated to the RFS, things like that.
But I think it's also brought out that people maybe don't understand sometimes government organizations. So there was a lot of comments on Celeste's post about, "I hope the government doesn't get this money." Celeste's donation is for the RFS of New South Wales, which is actually part of the New South Wales government. So, despite the fact that people were saying, "I hope the government doesn't get this, they're not doing anything", which since they've written that, the government has pledged, I think it was $2 billion to the recovery effort.
Sonya M.:
Exactly. So don't tell me they're not doing anything.
Larissa Harris:
Exactly. I think it's just that it's government, we know there's red tape. It takes longer to get through than social media posts and donations that can happen instantly. She was getting, I think it's $10,000 a minute, not only from Australians but from overseas and things like that.
Sonya M.:
That's actually incredible, isn't it?
Larissa Harris:
It is. It's amazing. But we know that the government's not going to work that fast. It just can't really happen. But yeah.
Sonya M.:
And I think that's a sign of our political times though. Look at how many prime ministers we've had and I've heard a lot of commentary around how this really does come down to the conversations that are happening on social media. People want things instantly. It's very easy to jump on board and complain straight away. It's very easy to have opinions swayed on social media. I mean, we've seen that with the American elections. So yeah, I think I just honestly in the last few days have got to the point that I'm just a bit overwhelmed with social media. And as a social media manager, that's probably not a good thing.
Larissa Harris:
Oh yeah. My phone screen hours have gone up exponentially. It's ridiculous, all I do is refresh between Facebook and, because we're on the border, the Vic emergency app, the New South Wales emergency app, the live traffic apps. It's just been constantly going around and around in a circle.
Sonya M.:
Yeah, I bet you old Mark Zuckerberg would be pretty happy with all these extra eyeballs and hours that have spent on these apps over the last few days. Well, Lari, thank you so much for coming on and having a chat to me about all things social media during a disaster and PR, very, very interesting times over the last couple of weeks. Certainly a very interesting staff to 2020 for both of us.
Oh yeah.