EPISODE 15 OF THE MARKETING SOLUTIONS PODCAST: VALUE-DRIVEN BUSINESS WITH ZAC HAYES FROM THE BUSINESS WEALTH COLLECTIVE

Sonya M:          

Today I have Zac Hayes from Business Wealth Collective and HA Accounting and a number of other businesses, but I'm going to get him to tell you all about that. I first connected with Zac last year, believe it or not, at one of my workshops in Albury and we had a great chat after that social media workshop. So he's doing some amazing things, he's young, he's hungry, and he's crushing it at the moment, if you don't mind me saying that, Zac. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Zac H:              

Thanks for having me, Sonia. Much appreciated. It's great to be here and talk about all things business.

Sonya M:  

Yeah, I love it. All right. So Zac is actually a really ... it's probably a funny way of saying it, but you're a really unique case. So I think it's probably best, rather than me trying to do it justice, why don't you tell me a little bit about who you are, your background and all of the pies you have your fingers in?

Zac H:              

Not a problem. Okay. So I'm an accountant first and foremost by trade, done the university degree, very stereotypical starting story in that sense. And then I went back and also did a financial planning degree and half a law degree. So from there it sort of really gave me a really good read on obviously numbers in itself, but then also how we can use them to either predict future, look at past to maybe assess, and also I guess tailor made plans, whether being well for business. And then from there I've gone on to start, obviously, an accounting firm, a business development practice firm and a financial planning as well, which is ... so HA Accounting, Configured Business Solutions and Limitless Financial Services. So because there's all these different things and it's so hard to sit down and actually explain to people what I do, I traded the Business and Wealth Collective, which will I guess house as the group head and have all the different companies that sort of really help people identify what they need in both business and wealth. And that way we can really pull leavers and triggers across, I guess, the range of different industries that really make impacts on people's lives.

Zac H:              

And then lastly, which makes me a bit more unique than most, would be I actually am the CEO of a traveling podiatry company as well. So we're in 11 locations at the moment and constantly expanding. So my partner's a podiatrist and we couldn't get him a job, so we traded the traveling podiatrist and that's a little over two years ago and I think we've got over 1800 patients now in that. So that's sort of growing just as quickly, which has been a bit crazy. But I think it's really made me understand and realize that I can put into practice not in only my industry but in a range of different industries. Seeing that all these different techniques, whether it be organization, charts, structures, business development tactics; they work in every industry, you just have to tailor make it and step back and go, "What am I actually trying to achieve?" And making sure that you're identifying your values and purpose when you're actually setting out to do anything in business. So that's a little bit about me.

Sonya M:  

Yeah, that's amazing. I love that you've sort of taken all of this ... because essentially, at the end of the day, you're working with people in an accounting and finance point of view, but then you've taken what you've learned and you're building this other business as well and putting everything into practice and seeing how it all works. So has that been a bit of a shift in perspective for you from what you've learned and the advice you give people to then going and taking it and seeing what is moving the needle most in this podiatry business?

Zac H:              

Definitely. I think a lot of people will see accountants as just number crunchers and I think I've always perceived myself as being more than that. And I think what I've been able to do is walk my talk in going, "Hey, I can not only do this as an accountant working for another firm, but I can create my own firm and do it." But then I've really gone outside my wheelhouse and done it in an industry where I certainly didn't initially know a lot about. I'm certainly not a foot person and some of the images that crop up in my day to day job are a bit interesting and intriguing. But I think it's in terms of people then get that buy-in to go, "Hang on, you actually do understand business." And when you understand business, how you do that is actually understanding people at their core. And that's been a learning process, and in the last six months in particular, I've certainly honed in on, I guess, wellness, mental health and positive psychology in regards to that to really turn from just a business owner but in different businesses, but now as a business leader. To understand and actually motivate people that work in my organizations and work with me because they're my team and I certainly wouldn't be able to do what I do without them.

Zac H:              

So in terms of that, I think it's just making sure that I'm being congruent with walking my talk, and and no matter what happens, the speed bumps along the way, it's making sure that I'm very much across going, "This is our purpose, these are our values and this is what we need to do to achieve our vision." And making sure that we're being really consistent with that across the board, no matter what business I'm working in, even as a consultant under the accounting umbrella or the business development umbrella in different organizations such as medical or trades or construction, transport; it doesn't matter what industry it is, it's very much the same.

Sonya M:  

 Yeah, I love that. And I think there's a lot of people out there in all industries that are just all talk, but you certainly aren't, which is good. I just want to go back to the accounting side of things quickly. So it's a really tough industry to crack, right? Especially regional areas. People spend 40 years plus with the same accounting firm, people are super loyal, people go to their family's lawyer or accountant or financial planner or whatever it might be. Take me back to the early days when you decided to go out on your own. How on earth did you do that? How did you even get a foot in the door? Because how old were you when you started your business?

Zac H:              

I think I was 24. So I was one of Australia's youngest registered tax agents, I think I was 22 or 23 at the time, and then I was really struggling with the traditional-isms in my industry. So I had a client base that wasn't under a noncompete that I could take because I'd brought into the firm, and it happened to be the equivalent of my salary, which maybe was a good thing and it sort of maybe gave me that extra security blanket to make that jump. But I guess for me it was identifying what I was actually wanting to do with my life and what's my purpose, and I think I could see that I could help so many different people in different ways outside, I guess, the barriers of the traditionalism of, "This is an accountant's role, this is what I need to do for my day job." So I've gone, "Right, I need to bite the bullet and do that." So starting a firm with 50 clients and just crossing your fingers and hoping is essentially what happens, I'm not going to lie.

Sonya M:  

At least you're honest, it's what a lot of us do.

Zac H:              

That's it. That's it, a bit of blind faith. But I think it's really important that from the very early onset people really bite into me; the fact that I had 50 clients at the age of 23, 24 meant that I could go, "Okay, this is exactly what I'm about and this is how I want to help you." So obviously being a little bit younger, being social media savvy and things like that, just using social media as the word of mouth amplifier. Rather than going in the traditional sense of, "Here's all this Facebook advertising," I've been very big on making it centered around some of my values. So one of my core values is support and community, so I made my social media about that and about education and knowledge. So sharing what I knew for free for people to be intrigued and interested.

Sonya M:  

Can you give me an example of, say, me of the content that you were sharing? So I love that you're saying you're giving away your information for free, give me an example of a post.

Zac H:              

So, for instance, one of the things that I noticed in my early days was wealth accumulation tactics, getting back to basics. So this is before Barefoot Investor was really big, or was just starting in that space to get really big, so one of the things that we spoke about is some budgeting tips to go, "Hey, if you're struggling here, this is something you should be doing." Or what earning some passive side income might look like for you in three years time if you were to start today. Just little things along the way, I guess aimed at my generation as well to say, "Hey, if you look at doing things outside the box, outside the traditional norms of the nine to five job, maybe this is the impact it could have on your life now, in three years time, and imagine if you didn't have a mortgage by the time you were 30."

Sonya M:  

So really you were marketing to people like you that had similar values and ambitions to you perhaps. Do you think that's why it was easy for you to get your message across on social media?

Zac H:              

I think so. And not only that, when you're so ... let's face it, when you find an extremely energetic, passionate person, you either love them or hate them. I think I walk into a room generally and there's generally two sides of the fence. I can be pretty loud and extroverted in a social setting, so for me, I use social media the same. People are either going to really buy into the message and go, "Hey, I need to speak to you, I want to buy into that message," or, "That's not for me." And that's okay. I don't mind putting myself out there in the ring, as Brene Brown's says, and being judged, getting battered and bruised a bit.

Sonya M:  

Oh, and do you know what? I think that's a secret to social media though; you're not a fence sitter, you've got a clear message, and it might be polarizing for some people, but it's getting cut through.

Zac H:              

And I think now that I was headed towards more of the leadership space in my industry, the conversations that I'm having on Twitter, calling people out when I don't necessarily agree, in a respectful way obviously, but I think it's making sure that my brand and my message is really on point. So one of my new year's resolutions this year was to make sure that I always keep in mind my purpose and values. If it doesn't align with them, drop it, stop doing that. So I won't pick up that speaking gig or I won't take on that business as a client or negotiate a contract with said people that don't align with me. And I think that's really important.

Zac H:              
And as I guess a startup business, we tend to be yes sayers a lot, and I did the same thing when I started. So I said yes to everybody. Then I had to do ... well, I call it a combing culture. We had to comb out all the knots that you sort of said yes to along the way. And that's something that I would really try and get a lot of my clients that I work with now to understand what they're saying yes to. They're saying yes to bad culture in 12 months time. Or that frustration because you've taken on a client that you know that ... you might need the cashflow, but you know that you're going to have the headaches and potentially damage your brand because that person, when it's not working out, is talking around town that you're not necessarily doing the best job that you could.

Sonya M:  

And that's applicable to every business, isn't it? Like I look back on some of the people that I said yes to and the stress that it caused me, it just was never worth the cashflow at the end of the day. But I think when you're just starting out, even if you've been in the industry for a long time, unless it's your own business, I don't think you learn to recognize those red flags until, I don't know, a few years in, to be honest. Whereas now I can have a conversation or even know almost instantly, even via email, whether or not they're going to be a good fit for us.

Zac H:              

Yep. Definitely. And even communication; like I know I'm an absolute shocker, so a client that requires a high level of articulate emails a lot of the time, I've got a senior manager that takes those clients on because she's wired that way, which is great. But I can get up to 300 emails a day, so to me, if someone requires that level of articulate attention, I call it, it's not a good use of my head space. I don't mind having a conversation while I'm making my coffee, doing certain things throughout the day, because to me that's easy, I can have that conversation, understand the context around it to then be able to talk the decision through, make some notes when I've got a little bit more time and and move on. Someone that requires 10 emails backwards and forwards I actually find really frustrating.

Zac H:              

So to me it's making sure that I'm teeing my team up to amplify my weaknesses with their strengths, so therefore ... and what I mean by that is I'm actually amplifying to say to the client, "Here are my weaknesses, but I have an amazing team, this is their strength. So they're going to be a really good fit for you. It's not saying that you can't have me in my business, but it's saying that these guys are actually going to be a better fit for you because that's where I lack, the attention that you need." And that's another conversation that I have with clients at that two to five year mark when they're trying to build that team to work a little bit less, to go, "Hey, this is something, the conversations that you can have, you can actually build up your weaknesses via the strengths of your team as a selling point, as a marketing point to actually grow your team and give them the confidence, and the consumer confidence, when you're selling to your existing clients, trying to transition and handover.

Sonya M:  

Oh I love that so much. And I've recently hired someone to do something very similar because I'm the same as you, that backward and forward and the constant ... I call it handholding, I think you've said it a lot nicer than I have. But even just having that conversation around, "Hey, this person's amazing at doing this," to that client, I think is something that I'm going to walk away from this interview and go and do. Because I'm sure you feel a lot of the time that people just want you, but I think selling it to clients in that way is really important.

Sonya M:  

You are a massive believer in using technology within businesses and accounting, right? So obviously I think you and I had a chat after my workshop about my dad, for example, has a number of businesses and he's so old school, he prints out all of his receipts, puts them in folders, that kind of thing. How does that conversation go for you and what are you using technology to make business owners' lives easier? Any tips for us around that?

Zac H:              
So a lot of business owners will come to me because they're not being serviced in a certain capacity. So one of them might be, obviously, tax minimization and things like that, but generally it falls within what I call a triangle seesaw. So they either need more time, more mind freedom, so less stress, or more money, more cashflow. So to me, what we do is we tailor the discussion about that. So if it's more cashflow, sometimes it's identifying ... let's say that a business debtors are here, we need an automated system. So you're using Zero, you're using things like the Pay Now function within Integra Pay, or PayPal, [inaudible 00:17:28], there's heaps out there. But also then the automatic invoice reminders and things like that as well. So making sure that we're systemizing that debt collection process and payment collection process, making sure that their cashflow is fixed.

Zac H:              

If it's more time, sometimes it's ... because what they do is they work in their business nine to five and they work in their operations department, they're fantastic at it, but then they spend three hours a night doing administration, doing their finance hat, maybe jumping on some social media for marketing, or they might have an outsource person that they need to respond to. They're not actually structuring their business to actually do these things between their nine to five because they're too busy in operations. They don't seem to value the other hats in the organization. And sometimes the other hats, rather than ops, are more important at a particular time, so it's making sure they understand that, walking them through that process and going, "You know what? If you're not passionate about it, that solves it. Sometimes you can outsource it to software rather than actually a person or a company."

Zac H:              

So for instance, with our podiatry and allied health space, what we do is we've got about six different add ons. We're in 11 locations, we've got podiatrists everywhere. Sometimes we've got them going into people's homes and stuff like that, so we've got security concerns and all those sort of things. We need live chats, we need to know where they are at any given point, we need GPS data to make sure that they're going to be okay, or if they are not responding to a phone call, we know where they are. So there's things that we can do and there's heaps of software out there that we then streamlined and automated, so it's saved an entire person, and then the podiatrists that are at ops, wasting their time communicating back.

Zac H:              

I could go on and on and on, but I think it's really important that we understand what in that time, in that period, it might be stress even, but that we also then tailor make systems around people's purpose, around their values, but also their organization hat structure. Where are their strengths and weaknesses in themselves as leaders and business owners and their team if they've got one? Some team members are ... if you look in terms of, say, [inaudible 00:19:47] for instance, some of them can be quite dominant and direct and very full on, so it's making sure that we bring KPI and system frameworking to make sure that that particular employee knows exactly what they need to do and they've got frameworks to work with and maybe some autonomy as well to feel like they've got a sense of belonging.

Zac H:              
The next thing could be that they're really highly emotional, they're really empathetic, but it might be a little bit too empathetic and not getting enough tasks done or taking things really emotionally. So setting some things like communications in place. Like if they then don't necessarily like 100 million emails, it's making sure that we've systemized a team meeting, for instance. As I said, we've run remote locations as well, so we needed to use Zoom, Monday, and a range of additional other apps and applications, but also taking into account the personality types that we're working with as well.

Zac H:              

So it really comes down to so many different factors, but it's making sure that you're just consciously aware of some of these things when you're putting them into practice. There's no point just going, "Hey, this is an awesome system," if only one person knows how to use it, or one person finds it valuable and the rest don't. So many times I see a business owner implement a new system and just expect the team to pick it up, but you've got to get the team buy-in before you implement. You've got to make them feel like they've got a sense of belonging, autonomy, that they have the the powers, I guess, to feel innovative within their job. If you're taking that away through software then that's going to be potentially a real issue, a cultural issue. You might not identify it at the time, but it could come back to bite you in six or 12 months time.

Sonya M:  

Definitely. And I think a lot of the time, and I've been guilty of this, I'll sign up to these tools, subscriptions, different technologies and things and I haven't taught my team how to use them, or I'm just paying this subscription and I'm not actually using it to its full capacity as well. Which I think for a lot of these sort of business models with these tools and subscriptions, that's great for them, but it's not so good for us. So we need to make sure we're using them. I just want to take a step back quickly and talk about your podiatry side of things. Okay, so you've started from scratch with this two years ago, right? You've now got 11 locations. That's insane. How do you get clients? And has that changed now that you're more established? What's moved the needle in that business?

Zac H:              

I think the needle moved through stages as well, stages of the growth. So one thing that I did subconsciously, I didn't realize I was doing this, including the accounting firm, was I was very clear on my purpose and why in each of the businesses and the values that I used to I guess perpetuate that and how we ran the company internally and externally. So one of them could have been ... I've spoken about the values of support in education. One could be responsibility, but that's not just the ordinary definition, it's to ourselves, to our work, to our clients, to be responsive, so quick, but without compromise where we're not making mistakes. So then we're using that value in how we deal with the team internally, and then how we communicate on social media is really important as well.

Zac H:              

So one of the things is wellness within the podiatry. So we're talking about the wellness of people, wellness of the community. We're making sure that on our social media we're telling our story about our purpose and our values; really important. And people really buy into that, especially, I find, more so in regional Australia than they do in metropolitan, for some reason. Because I think especially if you center around that community mindset, people buy in and then they'll comment. Strangely enough, the podiatry has a higher level of engagement than the accounting firm does, even though the accounting firm is at least three times the size on socials. And ironically it's really older people commenting and going, "Hey, that's some great advice, great tips." Or, "Can't wait to see you," when we're posting events and when we're in locations. People really buy in to the fact that we're actually providing really valuable services, but really personable and I guess value based services as well. It's not just going, "Hey, this is a valuable podiatry service in an area that needs it," it's very purpose driven and values based driven, it's a people first mentality. And people really will buy into that and talk about it.

Sonya M: 

I think you're doing that with all businesses that you're involved with, it's coming back to value and how you're actually making a difference for people. You're not just going, "Here's a service," you sign up for this service and that's it. It seems to me it's quite a tailored approach that you're taking. And I'm actually wondering whether you're getting a lot more engagement with the podiatry side of things because you're speaking to an audience that typically I don't think is addressed much on social media. That older demographic, I think a lot of the time they're forgotten.

Zac H:              

Definitely, definitely. And I think they have a lot of value. Obviously, target market wise, strangely enough we're only 50/50; 50% of our clients only are under the age of 45. But our social media engagement is that 55 plus bracket a lot of the time and we're just changing some of our approaches now because the boys were posting too many gruesome feet photos. So they're banned from the social media page now.

Sonya M:  

Do you know what? I feel like you're kind of like that doctor pimple popper version of feet, from what you're telling me.

Zac H:              

It was horrible, do not look at our previous posts, people, do not look at them.

Sonya M:  

Okay everyone, go check out their Facebook page.

Zac H:              

For us it's about, as you said, that conversation and being community minded, it's not about selling the service, it's about selling our values, selling why we do what we do. And most marketing books will tell you that, but a lot of the time they still somehow manage to sell their what and the how. They don't actually go why. But go further than that, deep dive into your personal values, your core values as a business owner or that you've got implanted in your organization. And if it's community, if it's support education, people first, listen; it could be a range of different things, making sure that you're actually being congruent. Walking your talk with your values on your social media is incredibly important. You're not going to see it straight away, but ... look, actually, you know what? That could be a lie because even with TTP our first couple of posts started to really hit that mentality on the mark, it happened really quickly.

Zac H:              

As I said, we started this with no patients. It was literally supposed to turn out to be a part time job, maybe 10 patients a week, just so Scott could step his skills up while I was busy running my companies, and we were going to game plan it in two years time. Next minute, we're running potentially a half million dollar business in two years. So it comes down to going, "Okay, what are the things that we're actually trying to do and achieve?" And it comes back to we're not trying to achieve massive profit, we never set that business out to be highly and hugely profitable. What we did was we were providing really people first, value based podiatry services in areas that needed them and to clients that couldn't actually potentially go and drive 70 kilometers or even to the local clinic; we were going into their homes to the ones that really needed it. And that meant that their families would come and see us in the clinic.

Zac H:              

So it came to, "Oh, hang on, we're actually going to use him because he'll come out at six o'clock at night and deal with my granddad's feet. So we make sure that we go and support him locally as well."

Sonya M:  

Oh, isn't that great? And I feel like that's such a country mentality that you might not necessarily get in Melbourne or Sydney as well.

Zac H:              

Definitely. And as I said, really that community mindset is incredibly important if you're in regional Australia. It hasn't probably worked as much on the accounting side as it has in health. So I sort of do this a little with my allied health professionals and it seems to go gang busters, but in my industry in particular, that really traditionalist ... not only that, but I find a lot of business owners in some of the regions I am are in, stereotypically, that 50 plus bracket. There isn't a lot of entrepreneurs in regional Australia. Which is saddening, but I'm hoping it'll change. Someone's got to advocate for it, so that's one of my big things.

Sonya M:  

We're starting a movement, Zac. It's happening, it's coming.

Zac H:              

It's happening. Exactly, exactly. And I think it's making sure that we're using that. So one of the things I'm looking at potentially bringing into Albury-Wodonga is a business and personal development conference, things that you would normally only get to do in Melbourne and Sydney. I've got some awesome managing directors and CEOs of ASX listed companies that want to jump on board and actually come down and speak, and I think that's going to be incredibly important to make sure that we're educating regional Australians in some of this stuff and giving them access to some of the stuff that would stereotypically only be in Melbourne or Sydney. So I think that's really important.

Zac H:              

Sometimes I do these things, and through sitting on a board recently I've picked up the chance to quote a really big local established business, and that was never my intention, but six months later and we're all of a sudden having a conversation. And I think they were perfectly happy with their accountant, but they really liked what I stood for and they said, "Hey, I think we need to buy into what you're doing because I think you could really help us," in different ways to the traditional service that they were receiving.

Sonya M:  

That's fantastic. And again, that comes back to relationships in these regional communities as well. With your podiatry, so allied health, I've worked with a few chiropractors and osteos and things like that and podiatry is the same; there are so many rules around what you can and can't do. So I know you've found a couple of ways to circumnavigate things here and there, but have you found that these tight regulations have restricted you much, or have you found ways around it? What does that look like?

Zac H:              

Definitely. So APRA's regulations are quite stringent sometimes. Now, they've actually just released some really good practical guides that didn't exist a year or two ago with each of the different industries. Osteo, I work with a lot of physios and podiatrists, obviously, running a company with one, I can obviously relay that wisdom. And a couple of chiropractors as well. One of the things that I've found is generally allied health practitioners, again, wearing that ops hat, they're generally very obviously science based, they're very black, white, "This is how the system should work," because that's what they were taught how to use the system as. It's black and white, you can't have testimonials. Well, no, you can't advertise testimonials, you can't put them on your website, this, that, the other. You can't ask clients to do that. But you can strategically place things, or if clients are giving you reviews on Google and Facebook and things like that, you can't use them, but you can't stop them using an already existing platform either.

Zac H:              
So we strategically have certain things like on our computer screens we roll through a couple of different things and one of those might be a scroll down through our Facebook page, which happens to have all our reviews. We're not advertising it because it's just a general scroll through, but it's making sure that we are putting certain things and product placing, in a way, but we're not actually physically doing it. We're not spending any money, we're not advertising on our websites and stuff like that. But we're strategically going, "Hey, this is our business, this is what are saying about us," through different mediums, but we're not actually asking anybody to do it, certainly. And we're not putting it on our website, we're not selling the review itself. Does that sort of make sense?

Sonya M:         
Yeah, definitely.

Zac H:              

And that's what the regulations are about. So there's a lot of creativity and gray area in regards to some of the way that the legislations worded. There's also a lot of, I guess, culture marketing programs and sales, and particularly in allied health, that I don't particularly agree with either. And I do really bend the rules when it comes to APRA regulations that I don't feel comfortable with, and I think that's making sure that, again, it comes back to our values and purpose. If it's against our values of community, actually supporting them, and people first, patient first mentality, then we're not going to do it. That's when you're going to get yourself into hot water. So it's really important that not only in terms of looking at the gray area of the legislation, getting back to what's your purpose and what's your values. If it doesn't align with them, don't do it. It's really quite simple in that regard when it comes to it.

Zac H:              

But really, really [inaudible 00:33:58] and sit down with a marketer that potentially obviously specializes, someone like yourself that obviously knows a little bit of the APPRA regulations, [inaudible 00:34:08]. But sit down and go, "Hey, from a business development tactic, this is what is obviously working, these are the regulations, but maybe this is some of the gray area that exists." And making sure that it doesn't cross those boundaries, not only with the legislation but with your values and purpose and stuff like that as well. Because it's your own boundaries you're crossing there and that's when you're going to find it becomes not authentic and I think that's ... and clients are going to see that and read that, they're going to see it on social media. There's a lot of the click funnel allied health practitioners, or the ones that book patients in for a 10 treatment plan, they actually don't need it. Come on guys, you're in allied health for a reason, if you wanted that sort of business, do a business on Amazon or something like that. Don't flog unnecessary health services, and particularly to pensioners, that's-

Sonya M:  

And that's [inaudible 00:35:03], do you know what? Click funnels in general grinds my gears and I have seen ... for anyone that doesn't know, click funnels is this sales funnel system, it's very American, it's very new faith, it's upsells, side selling. It's full on and I'm really not about it. But if you are in allied health, I think it is really important that you are across the rules and regulations, because at the end of the day, yeah, it comes down to your personal boundaries and values, but also it's a bloody massive fine. And something to be aware of and something that I have noticed as well within Adelaide Health, a lot of the time if you get reported to APPRA, for example, a lot of the time it's going to be a competitor of yours or someone in the industry. So if you are crossing the line there, it's not going to be a client likely that's reporting you, it's someone that's aware of the rules and you will be caught out. So really, really important I think to be across everything.

Sonya M:  

I am going to hit you with just a few quick fire questions before we wrap things up. So, you ready? All right. Number one, if you are a service based business needing more clients or new clients, what is the number one thing that they need to focus on to get those clients through the door?

Zac H:              

Two problem parts there. One, if you're an existing based business and you already have an existing client base, focus on the clients who already have. Really important if you're service based, making sure that you're doing a nice job, that, depending on the industry, you are getting those reviews, you are doing trigger points to start that word of mouth process, whether it be actually physically or online. Really important. Now, if you don't have any, start to find ways to spread your message. Go and talk to like minded people or potential referral partners, get everything up and running, launch, and actually just start putting yourself out there. Have an opinion, move through the things, have your values, and really tell people what you're all about. Tell your story if you're in services, really important.

Zac H:              

So it comes down to if you've got an existing based client base, definitely work on them. Most of our growth, organic growth, has actually been clients referring clients. It hasn't been people just seeing social media. I would say 80% of our organic growth, and we're talking, I think, 13 to 1400 clients on the accounting side, has actually come from a client referring a client. So we're at six or seven different referral chains now, deep into that process, because I like to think we do a phenomenal job, but we are people first and we really get them to buy into our message, what we're doing for them. So what do you think they're going to talk about? They're going to talk about us when they go to barbecues and stuff like that. So that's my probably not so quick answer.

Sonya M:  

No, that's great. And that's something I'm a big believer in, focus on the current clients you have and building that referral network. Word of mouth is still the most powerful form of marketing. Now I get the impression that you're a bit of a reader like me; any book recommendations for us? What have you been reading lately?

Zac H:              

I actually just read Chapter One, which is Daniel Flynn, the cofounder of Thank You. I did a speaking gig and some of the people from New Zealand actually that listened sent me the book, all the way from New Zealand. So it was really cool. So I just finished that one, it was a really good read, and that's all about social purpose. So if anyone that's in that space, really good. But my number one referral recommendation, it's only because I'm a huge believer in her, is Marie Forleo's Everything Is Figureoutable. If you haven't read it, read it. Absolutely phenomenal.

Sonya M:  

It's so good. I love her. I love everything she does. I think she's fantastic. So if you live under a rock and have not come across this incredible woman, go and check out Marie TV, it's the place to be.

Zac H:              

Oh, 100% right. She's just absolutely phenomenal. I've actually done her [inaudible 00:39:12] as well, which is one of her programs, and the way that she articulates everything, she's all about mindset. She explains the science behind it, but she does it in her stereotypical, simplified Jersey way and really hits home through people. So she is obviously stereotypically aimed at the female entrepreneur, but no matter who you are, you can read her book, you'll understand her language, you'll understand some of the basic science behind her concepts and absolutely phenomenal. Her mindset is just ... I wish I could implant into my brain. I like to think I'm heading towards what she's actually doing in my mind at the moment. So that's my 2020 goal for me with my mindset is to be more like her.

Sonya M:  

Amazing, I love that. Now, where can people find more about you and your businesses, Zac?

Zac H:              

Perfect. So I am Zac Hayes on Twitter, HA Accounting on Facebook. That's generally the two. And LinkedIn, Zac Hayes on LinkedIn as well. So yeah, you can sort of have any conversation, happy to have any online conversation. Or if you are wanting that overall arching either business development or accounting, tax minimization or systems and structure, certainly feel free to reach out. Or from the podiatry side, I'm not actually a podiatrist, so don't call me to touch your feet, but The Traveling Podiatrists on Facebook in particular, if you are in Northeast Victoria or Southern New South Wales, we've got a lot of locations across there that we can book you in to see the team. Particularly if you're in a regional area, do let us know if there is a need and yeah, we can certainly have that conversation. Because I think we're opening up another clinic in another month or two in a new area, so always happy to have a conversation online and start from there. But I'm also writing some blogs, that's my mission this year, on LinkedIn and we'll be sharing them on our website, the bwc.com [inaudible 00:41:25] as well.

Sonya M:  

Fantastic, and I will pop all of those details and links in the show notes for this episode. Zac, thank you so much for your time today. There are so many golden nuggets in there. Thank you.

Zac H:              

Not a problem. Thanks for having me Sonia. Much appreciated.