EPISODE 38 OF THE MARKETING SOLUTIONS PODCAST: Going Viral on Linked in
Sonya MR:
Today I'm joined by my work husband again, Dave Hyman. Hi Dave. Thanks so much for joining me.
Dave Hyman:
Thanks for having me again.
Sonya MR:
So I've got you back on the show today, which I'm excited about because you have sort of gone viral on LinkedIn. And I think, for me, when it comes to our working relationship, I feel like I'm the social media guru in this space and you're great at other things, but you come to me for social media advice. But I must say LinkedIn is something that I really have not utilized at this point. So I'm sort of sitting back, watching what you're doing at the moment. You've recently gone out on your own and LinkedIn has been a tool for you to get most of your clients. So talk to me about what are you doing on LinkedIn at the moment? How often are you posting? What's the go? Tell me everything.
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. I normally do come to you when it's anything social related. So this is probably the one up I've got on you, but LinkedIn's been something that I've been working out for probably two to three years now. I've always wanted a personal brand. And this seems to be the platform that presents itself well, to me. So your question's really good about how much have I been posting. I've noticed as I post more, obviously LinkedIn's algorithm is appreciating that. So I'm trying to do a post a day at the moment, whether that's video content, whether that's posting some results about a client, or this post that's obviously had a huge amount of volume at the moment, which was just talking about a scenario with a client that I turned away. But LinkedIn's been really interesting just with the engagement, because I just find that it's all to do with value.
So the more value that you add your audience or the more valuable content that you put on there that's unique and relevant and people get around, is really important there. Whereas I feel like a few of the other, I guess, social media platforms, you can pretty much put any content out there. I know you try and be as valuable as possible, but LinkedIn, particularly because it's lots of professionals, it's lots of your peers in the same industry. There's also competitors looking at you. So if you put anything out there that's seen as a bit wishy washy, or maybe even a little bit of smoke and mirrors, you get hounded for it. So I've really tried to craft what kind of content I've put out there. And I've been trying to do that more frequently in recent times.
Sonya MR:
Okay. So when it comes to your content, do you feel like it all comes down to the caption? Is it about the video? Is it about still image? What's working best at the moment, that you've consistently seeing that you're getting a lot of traction on? Do you see any patterns?
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, it's hard to say because I see so many people using video at the moment. And I think in 2020, if you're not doing video content or you're not at least trying to get some video content online, you're perceived as being ancient now. So I think video has been a good one for me, but it's so strange because this post is literally just not even an image. It's just a little short story. I did put up a post about six months ago, I had this really interesting experience where I was getting an Uber ride home and I'm pretty chatty, Sonya. So I was just chatting away. This Uber driver's probably thinking, "Oh God, can I just drop him off?" And we got talking and he was just mentioning that his wife owns a bakery in Richmond. We were just going back and forth and he goes, "Yeah, I've just built her a website." And I thought it was really cute. And then he said, "What are you doing?" I said, "I'm in digital marketing."
And he goes, "Oh, I've been working with an agency, actually, doing some search engine optimization on the old website. And we kind of failed." And we got talking back and forth. And eventually we got to the point where he gave me his contact details and said, "Let's have a strategy call." Now, that never eventuated to anything, but I still put it online and explained my story to people and said, "You shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Obviously have a chat to your Uber driver and see if there's a possibility there. I never would've thought that it would have turned into a potential deal." And that got huge engagement as well. So I think people love storytelling. I think whether it's a video piece of content or whether it's a blog or whatever it is, I think people just enjoy hearing stories and telling your story. And obviously with me starting Reform Digital during COVID with my wife being pregnant, I think I've got a story to tell, and I think it's really working at the moment. And just figuring out how to utilize that has been a really fun experience.
Sonya MR:
Okay. What are your thoughts on LinkedIn of using emojis in your caption? Yes or no?
Dave Hyman:
I use them all the time.
Sonya MR:
Okay, interesting.
Dave Hyman:
But that's my personality, I think. I try to come across as bubbly. Because we can talk about really heavy pieces of content or really heavy topics and emojis just soothe them a little bit. They make them a little bit more approachable and that's always been my thing. I like to hit hard with the content that I'm talking about, but I also like to try to come across as a reasonably approachable human being. So yeah, I'm all about emojis. Go for it. Probably not in emails. I sent an email the other day with two emojis and I was like, "Oh no, that's unprofessional." But LinkedIn, I think it's fine.
Sonya MR:
Okay. And say you did a video or a post on LinkedIn, would you also share that content to Facebook or Instagram?
Dave Hyman:
I do sometimes, but I don't share from LinkedIn across there. Sometimes I'll just put it out on a different day or, I mean, it depends. This is probably where I need to come to you. My Instagram and my Facebook for Reform Digital are pretty hopeless. So I think I've been trying to share at least blogs that I upload. Every now and then I put a post up, but I think segmenting those are really important. So you do this really well. You obviously have a personal Facebook, but you also have a Kiss Facebook as well. And you do a lot of content on there and you're starting to grow an audience from there. So from my point of view, I should be doing the exact same thing.
And that's where I can launch all of this content, I guess. But there's such different audiences. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but Instagram is quite a younger audience. Facebook for me, obviously this would be my close group of friends because I've been posting it on my personal Facebook. So LinkedIn is just a completely different audience. It really hits my target market exactly where I need it to.
Sonya MR:
Okay. So this viral post and where you're posting this content at the moment, is it going through a LinkedIn company page or is it going through your personal LinkedIn page?
Dave Hyman:
No, it's going through my personal. I do, every now and then, try to tag my company page in there just to see if anybody cross clicks across there. But no, this came from my personal posts. So on this post, so just so you know, it's had 38 000 views. I think we're at, I'm just looking now, 38 219. Basically, I'm just talking about a scenario in which I had a potential client talk to me. She was extremely keen. She was ready to sign and then she kind of just got a little bit picky in the way she wanted this to work. So she was talking about talking to me daily, she was talking about amending the contract that I sent to her. And that would have opened me up legally as an agency. So a few of the things that she mentioned right at the end there, she was like, "If you just amend these quickly I'll sign." And being a brand new business, obviously I want to try and take on as much work as possible.
But on the flip side, I don't want to make myself liable for anything in the future. And if it's not a fit, it's not a fit. And I'd rather move away from this early days and not have to deal with the anxiety. I mean, the red flags were really apparent. We've spoken about this before with clients with red flags and I think I try to see the good in everybody and I try my best to think of a way to make things work. But this scenario, I didn't think she was going to budge. So I actually said, "I'm going to move on. Best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll find an agency that works for you." And that was really hard.
So I just put it online and said, "Do you guys agree with the way that I approached this?" And it's just gone massive. Everybody's putting in their two cents. Everything's been really positive. I mean, there's been a couple of negative comments. I think there's a few people in there just trying to get a reaction, but that's fine. I mean, the more reaction this gets, the more I blow up. So I'm fine with that.
Sonya MR:
Exactly right. And I think the more that this blows up, the more that your future posts will be seen as well. So that's the way algorithms work, right? They go, "Oh, you're really valuable. People want to see your content." So they'll start pushing out more and more to your audience. Can I ask, what is your approach to making LinkedIn connections? Have you been actively seeking connections with business owners that you want to do work with? A lot of your connections in the industry? What is that audience mix look like at the moment?
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, that's a really good question because I still haven't got this sorted perfectly either. So I try and connect with anyone and everyone, just because I think the more people that you're connected to, the more chance that there is a possibility that you have a conversation and some work could come from it. I connect with peers. So I try my best to connect with people that are relevant to my industry. But yeah, you're right. I do look for people that are marketing managers or e-commerce managers in businesses that I want to work with. I've only just started using sales navigator properly, which is an interesting tool. So you can see the decision makers and get across to them. But to be perfectly honest, if somebody sends me a request, as long as they don't seem spammy and they seem reasonably relevant to me, I'm pretty much accepting anything and everything, just because I want to widen my audience as much as possible.
Sonya MR:
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So you're posting daily. How are you coming up with content? Are you pre scheduling? Are you just adding it to your to-do list each day to add a piece of content? How does that work?
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, it's so funny you ask about a to-do list too, because I've been so bad at keeping my stuff. I'm a pen and paper person. So I always write it down on little sheets of paper and I just ran out of paper and I can't be bothered leaving the house. So I've just moved-
Sonya MR:
My God, you need Asana.
Dave Hyman:
Well, I've just moved across to Todoist, which is just a-
Sonya MR:
I haven't heard of that one.
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, it's just a free app. It just has a to-do list here. You can sign up for free using an email or Facebook or whatever you want to do. And I've just put my list together today, which is daunting because there's at least 37 things here. But now that I've done that, I do have a recurring one here that says post a piece of content. I haven't been pre scheduling just because the climate that we're in at the moment, I don't know if something's going to pop up, or if there's going to be a new trend, or there's going to be something interesting that I can talk about. But most of the time I just try and sit there and go, well, if I've done a post about the results of a client this week, I probably will leave that until next week until I do another one.
So then that's an opportunity to do a video. I might've seen something on LinkedIn from one of my connections that was interesting, or I might have an experience with a client that leaves itself open to creating some content around that. So, no, I'm pretty much just creating it daily. I'm just thinking what is going to be relevant to the audience. And I'm just trying to mix it up, because if you just hound the same thing over and over, I'm sure if I posted client results daily, people would start to go, "Okay, we get it. You get some okay results, well done." I think if I can change it up and have a blog one day, then a video content that's talking about, I don't know, an interesting thing in the industry. And then I'm looking at a client, maybe a testimonial or something like that. The more difference you have throughout the week, I think it keeps it fresh. And I think people are more engaged.
Sonya MR:
When you say blog, are you actually uploading articles or are you adding a blog to your website and then linking externally out?
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, I'm uploading a blog to the website because I'm not ranking my website right now, so I want referral traffic or I want traffic coming to the website to see if my services interest people. So yeah, I'm writing a blog on the website and then posting it to all my socials to see if I can bring traffic back.
Sonya MR:
Interesting. All right. So from here, I guess for you, are you going to be looking at ways that you can, I guess, repurpose your content and post that on Facebook, or are you going all in on LinkedIn at the moment because that's what's working for you? And when you are writing captions and doing these daily posts, do you have any offer or call to action on any of these posts or are you literally just adding value?
Dave Hyman:
It's a fine line because if you add a call to action, like get in touch with me or talk to Reform Digital for a strategy, I think people will find it too salesy. So for that post, if I had signed off on the post of saying, "I didn't sign this client. Here were the reasons why. What do you guys think? Oh, and by the way, you can sign up to Reform Digital." I don't think it would have had the same personability and the same approachability. So I do every now and then. Every now and then if I say, "Here are the results, here's a really solid Google shopping campaign." I literally just did a post about 20 minutes ago about Google shopping. Those are normally posted. I would put something at the bottom saying, "If you want to get in touch, let me know."
I didn't on that one, particularly, but I don't do it on every post. I do it on a few posts. And in regards to where am I going to put my time? Yeah. I mean, LinkedIn is probably returned the best form of inquiries, has given me the most valuable leads from my end. I do need to up my Facebook and Instagram game. I guess at the end of the day, when you're building a personal brand and you're building an agency and you're trying to get brand awareness, you need to be doing everything in the funnel. So ideally I would love to have really consistent Facebook marketing, really consistent Instagram, maybe even some YouTube stuff, and then LinkedIn ticking over. And then if I start doing paid media as well, I'd want all of those working together harmoniously. But as you know, it's difficult to manage everything at the same time.
Sonya MR:
Absolutely. And I think I'm a big fan of focusing on one platform that's getting you the return first, and then expanding out. So I think you're doing an amazing job. You've inspired me. I definitely need to get back onto the LinkedIn bandwagon and putting out some, I guess, vulnerable valuable connection content, like you are. So, yeah-
Dave Hyman:
I think, you personally, because I know you quite well, I think your brand and the way that you approach things works perfectly the way that you're doing it. But give LinkedIn a go. I mean, we were just talking before this post that's obviously gone way more mental than I thought it was, is now being stolen and reshared by other people. I just found a guy who took my post almost word for word and reposted it himself.
Sonya MR:
You're kidding.
Dave Hyman:
So I did call him out and it wasn't for the sake of trying to besmirch him or anything. It was more just to be like, "Hey, I'm glad that I've inspired you to write content, but just make it unique. Don't copy me almost word for word." And he's obviously taken it down since then and it's all good, but it's just really interesting to see that I never thought I would have done a post that's so engaging and it's had such a reaction that anybody would want to try and steal my content. I've never had that experience before. So it's just something I need to get used to if I keep pushing it this way.
Sonya MR:
Absolutely. Get used to the fame, buddy. All right. What I might do is I might get a copy of this post. I'll take a screenshot and I'll link back to your LinkedIn profile so people can go check out the post itself and what you're doing. You cool with that?
Dave Hyman:
Perfect. I'm happy with that.
Sonya MR:
Awesome. All right, one last quick question that's just popped into my head as well. Obviously this situation you've pitched someone and then you've gone and written about them publicly on LinkedIn. Do you feel anything funny around that? Do you feel like you need to ask clients whether or not you can post their results before you post them? Do you ever feel uncomfortable or uncertain around sharing, I guess, these interactions with people? Because at the end of the day, this person that you did pitch, that you turned away, could go and read this.
Dave Hyman:
Yeah, of course. I mean, I did definitely think about whether or not it was appropriate. And I also had a thought of, if they read this, could they get up in arms about things. But I think it was pretty amicable. I think the resolution was nothing aggressive. The conversation ended with me literally saying, "I think you'll find a better fit at another agency." I actually mentioned a couple of agencies that I thought might be a fit for the service that they were looking for. And I think it's important to highlight these situations. Firstly, I don't think she's technical enough to be online and probably read that. So I doubt she's seen it, but even if she did, I would happily have her call me and have a conversation about it. But I think it's really important to highlight these scenarios, especially for somebody like myself, who's a brand new business.
Who's learning the ropes. Who's trying my best to make good decisions. I think it's really important to bounce stuff off. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what LinkedIn, that's what social media was created for. It's networking. It's making sure that everybody understands what's going on out there in regards to client results. Yeah. I do normally check with my clients if they're okay with that beforehand. I don't put any information about the client on there. So you can see that all of my results just have data behind them. None of them are really specifically saying this URL got this, unless it's a in depth case study, which I do do, but obviously ask clients permission beforehand. So I think as long as you're not personally attacking somebody, or you're not getting really personal with your posting and you're not mentioning their information, I think that's really important. And I don't have an issue with it personally. And if anybody did have an issue with it, I would have no hesitation pulling a post down if it really affected somebody.
Sonya MR:
Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thanks for clarifying.
Dave Hyman:
No worries.
Sonya MR:
Well, thanks, Dave. Always a pleasure to have you on board. I'm sure we'll have you back very soon because you're doing some amazing things at the moment. Thank you.
Dave Hyman:
Thank you. You too. And I'm looking forward to seeing how your LinkedIn profile just explodes on the scene.
Sonya MR:
Fingers crossed.
Dave Hyman:
Thanks for having me, mate.