EPISODE 72 OF THE MARKETING SOLUTIONS PODCAST: CREATING A HIGH-END BRAND WITH MATTHEW LANDERS

Sonya:
Matthew Landers is recognized as one of Australia's leading floral designers. After growing up in a family business, Matthew wanted to be recognized as an individual in floristry at a competitive level. Since 1999, Matthew has competed in and won over a hundred floral design competitions. Matthew has also undertaken international competition, including the RHS Chelsea Flower Show. Amazing. Since 2005, Matthew has spent extended periods overseas, contracted by some of the world's leading luxury fashion, cosmetic and hotel brands to style and create flowers, including some of the world's largest A list events.

Sonya:
Matthew is frequently consulted across Australia for corporate events, weddings, product development, and tuition. He has also demonstrated and conducted public and industry workshops across the world. And he also happens to be the owner of three florists, all by his name, Matthew Landers, and an academy as well that teaches people all about floristry and business.

Sonya:
I'm so excited for you to listen to this interview. I got a lot out of it as someone in business, and I think the knowledge that Matthew has to share over his last 10 years in business is something that we can all take on board.

Sonya:
Welcome to the Boom Your Biz podcast. A podcast for the movers, the shakers, and even bigger action takers in business. I'm your host, Sonya McIntyre-Reid, and each week I'll be exploring the question of what really makes businesses and organizations thrive. I'm on a mission to educate, empower, and inspire business owners and myself along the way.

Sonya:
Today, I'm joined by Matthew Landers. I actually saw Matthew speak at a One Roof event. Gosh, I think it was probably two or three years ago now, Matthew. And at the time I was thinking about doing a podcast and I had you written down on a list in my phone of incredible business owners that I would have loved to have had as guests on the podcast, and now it's finally happening. So thank you so much for taking the time, Matthew.

Matthew Landers:
Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you for including me. That's very kind of you. That's very nice to hear that I made an impact on you. It seems like forever ago, actually. Was it two years ago, maybe now?

Sonya:
Maybe even longer, honestly, but-

Matthew Landers:
Yeah, it was forever ago. I can't remember the last time I left Perth, but yeah.

Sonya:
Feels like that. But honestly it was a room full of business owners and you had them absolutely enthralled by your story about how you started your business, how you were using social media at the time. And I suspect that might've changed a little bit over the last year or so, just having a look at your social media activity and how your business has grown. So I would love to get into all of that.

Sonya:
So I guess why don't you start by telling us who you are? What is your business?

Matthew Landers:
So, the business is my name. So it's Matthew Landers, which is always awkward when you have an eponymous business name, because it's like everyone just expects that you are the only person that works in it. So, we're a florist here in Perth and I have three stores and also a school in Perth. So, we are crazy busy all the time. And fortunately, fortunately here in WA, I mean, we haven't really seen too much impact for the last 18 months or however long this horrible period's been going on for. But yeah, so the business is actually still growing, which I feel very, very fortunate about.

Sonya:
Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. So, tell me a little bit about the school side of things. How long has that been in existence for?

Matthew Landers:
So the school started back in 2012, so she's coming out to 10 years and it basically was founded on the principle of there was a real gap in the market, not just for providing training to people that wanted to become florists, but more so to actually provide a safe place for wealthy housewives that just wanted to come and play with flowers and experience what it is that we do in our industry. And that really just grew. And it grew to a point that I probably didn't really expect or imagine. And, yeah, we've been the largest provider here in WA for at least eight years. And yeah, it's great. We now have six-month long courses for people that are kind of looking to get some foundation skills to become a florist and business courses, and we still do plenty of those one-off wealthy housewife courses. They're my favorites.

Matthew Landers:
It's kind of interesting to see what it was supposed to be and what it's become. And I guess I'm at the turning point now, being the 10th anniversary next year, I'm also in a stage where I'm going to have to also reinvent the school side of the business as well, because there's only so many people that want to take part in a specific genre of business, I guess. So I almost feel like everyone that wanted to maybe do a floristry class or come and spend time with me, they've actually been and gone and they come back and they come back regularly, but still it's like, no, there needs to be that evolution. So yeah, that's actually something that's kind of on my things to do list now, which is interesting.

Sonya:
Yeah, okay. Can I ask with the business side of things and teaching people who want to, say, open up a business or grow their existing business, do you or would you consider offering some form of online course that you could take global?

Matthew Landers:
A hundred percent. So, I have actually just finished recording a brand building course, which is going to be available shortly via an online platform. Because for me, obviously I have had great success in business, but floristry as an industry is actually really, really difficult to teach when you're not in person. So it's not my preference to kind of deliver floristry classes online, but I can certainly deliver mentorship and I can certainly deliver business classes online, absolutely.

Matthew Landers:
So that's definitely going to be my focus and 10 years next year in this business, it's kind of also at a stage where I need to focus on having more time for myself rather than... You put 10 years into a business, it's really important that the business also gives back to you at some point. So that's what the business is going to do for me next year. So yes, that's on the cards. Absolutely.

Sonya:
Excellent. So for anyone that has not come across your website, how would you describe the floristry side of things as being positioned?

Matthew Landers:
So for me, the whole business was founded on the fact that when I started this brand, I had just moved back from living overseas for a couple of years and working with truly the 1% of the world as such and not being in, but working in that circle and seeing the luxury that really actually does exist in this world. And then I realized that all these years that I had been in business with my mum, for instance, and when I'd been working as a florist previous to being in business for myself, we kind of have followed that mold of like what a florist shop looked. In a florist shop 15 years ago, you had balloons and teddy bears and the whole kit and caboodle. It was almost like a flower shop and a gift shop and a bit of a junk shop and a party shop. Horrible.

Matthew Landers:
And I moved back to Perth and I thought, you know what? The actual industry of floristry as a whole is so luxury. You don't need flowers to make a wedding, you don't need flowers to sit on your dining room table every week. It's a luxury. It's completely a luxury. And I just wanted to create a brand and a place and stores that really upheld that level of luxury and service. So yeah, I was basically seeking to create the Gucci of flowers, basically. That was kind of where I was looking to position myself so that people could come and have that consistent experience with us and build a brand based on that.

Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), and I think looking at all of the touch points with your marketing, that is something you've achieved. You land on the website and the main banner, it looks like a high end fashion house, essentially. It is absolutely beautiful. Can you talk me through what that process looked like for you setting up the business with that branding side of things? Because I know it's so hard for a lot of business owners when you first start up, and we hear it time and time again. We all say, if you're speaking to everyone, you're speaking to no one. But I think a lot of business owners then have this fear that they won't have any customers at all-

Matthew Landers:
Hundred percent, yep.

Sonya:
... if they're really clear with their branding and who their audience is.

Matthew Landers:
I think the key to success with that, and certainly the process that I followed with that, is that you have to be able to talk to the right audience in the right language. And you need to make sure that you commit to that. There was instances, for instance, in the beginning when I opened my first store nearly 10 years ago, and the store was black inside as my stores still are. And, I only wrapped in black and we had gold foil things and it was new to the industry as such, in Perth anyhow. And it was that realizing and being at peace with the fact that those people that came into the store and they were like, "Oh, do you have anything else other than black to wrap in?" They weren't my customer. And I had to just actually be like, "You know what? They're not my customer. I have to be at peace with the fact that this customer's about to walk out of my store." And that's absolutely fine, because it means that it's making space for somebody that's coming in that wants to be part of this.

Matthew Landers:
And also having people... It's that level of commitment. I remember when I was living in Paris, I walked into an Hermès store and me living like a Kardashian and I thought I'm going to buy myself a bag. I'm going to buy myself a Birkin today or whatever. Having those fantasy fairytale moments. And I remember walking into the Hermès flagship store in Fabergé and this stone faced Parisian woman when I said "Oh, can I have a look at that bag?" And then she made me put gloves on. And then I said, "Oh yeah, how much is this cute little bag?" And she's like, "It's 45,000 euros." And she just said it with stone. And I was like, "I need to take that experience away and realize the dedication that she had for that product and for that brand and that this is how much it costs." And I thought, "If I can implement that into my own business, I can be successful."

Matthew Landers:
But when you doubt yourself, and we all have doubt when we're in business, especially starting out in business, but you have to turn that doubt into self-belief being like, "No, this is the product I'm doing. This is how much it costs. If I'm speaking to the right audience in the right language, I will attract that client to my genre of business and they will see my point of difference and they'll want to want to purchase."

Sonya:
And they'll buy into your brand because you have that point of difference as well. Whereas if you were just opening up another shop that's the same as all the others out there, why would they be paying a premium price for that?

Matthew Landers:
And it's all about, for me as well, leveraging emotional connection. Making sure that if you are in business and for instance, if you're a sole trader, and it's literally you. You do everything, you are every facet to that business. Tell people, do a little reel video or something on Instagram being like CEO, and then it's you. And then in another outfit it's like delivery driver, and it's you. Share with people that it's real and because when people realize that someone is passionate about their product and their business, we buy into it because we connect emotionally with the business. And I think that is why I was so willing to also show my own face as such as the face of the brand, because people would see how [inaudible 00:12:36] and how much I love what I do.

Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Can I ask, as you grew, was it harder, do you think, to be able to delegate and grow a team because it was your name that was the business and everyone had seen your face all over social media? How do you still provide, I guess, that personal feel behind things as you're scaling a business?

Matthew Landers:
Yeah. Scaling's a big thing and there's been so many periods where, as a business owner, you know that you have to relinquish control and you have to decide at what point has your passion turned into your obsession. Because if it's become your obsession, you're never going to be able to relinquish that control to someone else in order to scale your business. And I was a firm believer in that I could teach someone the skills. It was more about the right people. So for me, it's always, when I'm recruiting, about the right people, even if they haven't got the skills I need or want, I will teach the skills if I can have the right synergistic fit within my team. So finding those key people that are more than happy to be, I don't want this to sound how it sounds, but sometimes you're a shadow of a legacy, if that makes sense.

Matthew Landers:
When you come into a business, especially as an eponymous business where the actual founder of the business still works in the business. So for me, it's all about empowerment. Every single time that someone calls for instance, and they only want to speak to me and I don't even know who this person is. And then I get them on the phone, I'm like, "Oh, it's so lovely to hear from you. I'm just going to transfer you back to such and such. She's the store manager of this store. She's going to take care of this for you. So nice to speak to you. Bye bye." And it's about empowering that trust on to somebody else so that people know that the 20 staff that I've got floating around are here because they have been selected to be here. And I have complete trust and faith in their ability.

Sonya:
And I think that is so, so clear even to when I reached out to you on Instagram, I got a message back like that from one of your team members. And then it was an instruction to email, and then I got an email back from that second person straight away, and it was locked in. It was just boom, boom, boom, done and honestly-

Matthew Landers:
I have really strict rules in place when it comes to communication, because I truly believe that the foundation of a business is built on trust, respect, and communication. And as me as a business person and us here as a business, we loathe nothing more than receiving DM after DM after DM, because it's time consuming, right? And sometimes it'll be, like yourself where you're like, "This is what I want." You're reaching out in a genuine way and it's like, "Yeah, cool. We can facilitate that." But then it's just sometimes you get DMs where someone sends through 10 pictures or something being like, "Can you tell me how much this is?" It's like, "No."

Matthew Landers:
Every business has to have a process. So for me as a business person, the thing that I identify with is if someone slides into your DMs on Instagram, they're not bound by the terms of your business. They're not bound by the terms and conditions of your business. So for us, in order for someone to be bound by our terms, they need to actually come via our website or email. And that's why we redirect everybody because it's actually really important. Because if you're quoting someone for something or a job on Instagram, you're not bound by your terms and conditions. So, yeah, it's about having those processes in place and for me, it's about delivering something that exceeds people's expectations. And like you said, having those speedy responses makes you go, "Oh wow. This business responds quickly." And I think that's really important. It makes you stand out from the crowd.

Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. You mentioned you've got rules and processes, do you have a rule around response time?

Matthew Landers:
A hundred percent. So, I have a media monitor, I have a communications manager. I do actually have, and I know that this is definitely something that I had to implement probably more so with myself than anyone else early on in the piece, maybe the second year into the business when I could see how big social media was going to become for me, is that we only respond during business hours. And there's no apology. During business hours, you have our absolute hundred percent attention, but outside of business hours, sorry. It's not playtime here. It is our time.

Matthew Landers:
So yeah, during business hours for an email, for instance, it must be answered within one hour. That's my procedure in place with an email and the same on social media, it has to be answered within two hours. So I'm more than happy for it to take two hours on social media, but email is simply now for us just a means of communication. It's the same as 10 years ago, the phone would ring constantly. The phone would ring off the hook for people ordering flowers, things like that. Well, 50% of those people now actually just either buy it online or email, so we have to treat it with the same respect.

Sonya:
Yes, very true. When you realized that social media was going to be big for your business, what did that look like? How did you start out and how has that sort of developed and changed over the years?

Matthew Landers:
Oh, I think when it comes to building anything on social media, you too also have to be aware that it's kind of that Pringle moment as you might call it. Once you pop, you can't stop kind of thing. And you have to respect that it's going to take the same commitment time and dedication as it does for any other facet of the business. You have to be able to set yourself realistic goals or targets of when you're going to post, how you're going to post, what it looks like, but also have a strategy in place. So for me, it was like, "Okay, if I'm strategic about my social media, I can actually build a cult following of people that love me as well as people that love the brand."

Matthew Landers:
Because what it does is it also builds that trust, so that's why I'm not scared to eat something for instance, and be like, "No, that was bloody horrible." And just be honest and be like, "No, I didn't like it," as much as saying, "Yes, I loved it," or whatever, because you have to be real. And I think building that trust then gives you authenticity. And once people know that you, as either a public figure or a brand, have authenticity, it builds that trust and respect. And then it just means that there's no substitute for you.

Matthew Landers:
And I think that's what I really identified early on is kind of, if I was going to take the bull by the horns, I needed to make sure that I was respectful, that anyone tuning in as such on social media was a gift to me because they don't have to. They can be channel surfing, like we all do on TV, and they've chosen to tune into me. So I need to make sure that I'm delivering the content which they've signed up for and also make sure that I'm being my hundred percent authentic self.

Matthew Landers:
And if you're having a bad day, and I say this to everyone especially in business, if you're having a bad day, tell people. Tell your following or your audience that you're having a rough day and you just can't be bothered because we all have those days. And I think when people can see the real you and the human you, it just adds more value to it.

Sonya:
I think a common misconception when you are trying to position yourself as high end or very professional, is that people think that they can't show the personality and the real behind the scenes side of things, because they feel like it may damage the brand. How do you strike the balance between remaining premium and also being really authentic and genuine on social media?

Matthew Landers:
That's a really good question and I've been asked this a lot. I'm very, very candid on social media and it's really about... And I've thought about this analogy before where I remember I was in London one time and it was all shits and giggles and I'm trolling myself around London and having giggles and poking fun with everyone on Instagram. And so, you're being your authentic self, you're being a little bit crass or a bit rude or whatever. And then half an hour later, it's like, "Matthew Landers wins metal at Chelsea Flower Show." So you back it up with the goods. Do you know what I mean? If you can back it up with the goods, you can be yourself. But you have to also be mindful that if you are talking the talk, you have to walk the walk.

Matthew Landers:
So if you're telling people that you're the best in your field, or you're telling people that you have the best product or it's better than someone else's, you've actually got to be able to prove it. So that's, I think, for me, is the balance. It's just like, "Yeah, I can be funny and really candid and rude or whatever." And then it's like, bang. We just did this and it showcases that we are what we say we are.

Sonya:
Have fun with it, but also make sure you're doing the work.

Matthew Landers:
Absolutely.

Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). When you presented to One Roof, I remember you were talking about there are things that you never share on social media and privacy concerns [crosstalk 00:22:25] past. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Matthew Landers:
It's actually a very good one because... So, for me, you have to think about everyone has a safe place, right? Everyone has a sacred space as such. For me, it's my home because when I'm at home, I'm at home and it's just my husband and my dogs. And that's it. So for instance, I never, ever share any footage on social media inside my house because once people are just like, "Oh, I love that artwork you've got in your house." It's just like, "Oh my God, you've been into my house." It no longer becomes yours. So that's really important for me is never sharing that.

Matthew Landers:
I'm sitting here at my desk right now and I'm looking down at an Hermès bag with $5,000 worth of shit that I just bought myself because I can, and I would never share that on social media because people would misconceive that, that I am maybe wealthier than I am, or I'm misusing money, or I'm this is why we're so expensive or whatever. To me, it's about striking a balance and thinking, "What do people need to know and what do people not need to know?" And making sure that you sort of identify are you a business or are you a public figure?

Matthew Landers:
Because if I was a beauty blogger, different. I'd be showcasing this Hermès and I'd be this is what I'm doing, this is what I bought, blah, blah, blah. But that's not me. I'm showcasing my business: what we do, what we sell, what we offer. But yeah, I actually, just before Christmas this year, got stalked in a big way. And it's a little bit concerning because when you do put your face on social media, and when I look at my following and I look at the statistics of how many people in Perth follow me and also being on TV all the time, you have a face that people know and you don't know what someone else on the other end watching you is going through or what they think about you and what you are to them. And I remember having these incidents of getting stalked and having people sending photos of me in different locations and being like, "What's the end game here?" This is really bizarre. So yeah, you have to set those boundaries and let people respect those boundaries as well.

Sonya:
I think anyone listening to this episode, I feel the biggest takeaway from this, particularly for me, is you seem to run your business and your life by a lot of boundaries and rules. So during business hours, you and your team, you are on. You're responding within a certain time, you're all over social media, it's all happening. Outside of business hours and your personal life, you've kept very separate. You're not on social media when you're at home, you're not responding to emails, you're not responding to customers outside of hours. I think having those clear boundaries of this is when we work, this is when we don't, we'll help keep you sane in business, especially-

Matthew Landers:
It's a trap. It's a trap because as soon as you start responding out of hours, it becomes your new normal. It becomes, "Oh, I'll just quickly look at my emails. I'll just quickly do this." It's like, "No, no. No, no. The email will still be in your inbox tomorrow morning. If someone has complained, they're still angry tomorrow morning." It can wait. If you called a government department after hours, no one's there. Why should it be them and not us? It's everyone. It's really important to set those boundaries.

Matthew Landers:
And also in small business, you need a network of people that love and support you. Not everyone has that network of a supportive partner or you might have children or whatever it is, you need to make sure that network as such, still feels connected to you because it would be unfair of you, because opening a business is like having a child. I don't have children, and I'll never have children, but I look at my business as a child because I have watched it grow, I have nurtured, I have fed it when it's need to be fed, when it's been sick I've taken it to hospital as such. Would I run in front of a moving vehicle to save my business? A hundred percent. So, that to me is that. So when I think about, "Okay, well, why would my business be more important, for instance, than my husband?" It's not. It's the same. You've got an emotional connection to both. You just need to make sure that you know when to spend the time on it and that emotional connection with your business is in business hours.

Sonya:
Yes, I think that's so, so important and I'll be taking that on board for sure. Matthew Landers, thank you so much for taking the time today. Where can people find you on social media, I guess?

Matthew Landers:
Well, they can find me, believe it or not, at Matthew Landers on social media. Two T's never one T. Yeah, and I think it's always fun just to follow along because whatever we're doing in the business, I share. So if there's something new, something exciting, like when I launch this new website very soon, so the business mentorship and stuff like that, it'll be launched on there. So keep an eye out.

Sonya:
Fantastic. When do you expect that will be live?

Matthew Landers:
Well, I'm actually hoping to... It's actually ready to go now, but strategically I'm just trying to place it when the time is absolutely right. And it's just not quite right at the moment. So I've managed to have the Midas touch so far when the time is right that you push play, so it will be sometime this year. I'm not quite sure when, but I will know and it'll be like, bang. It's on.

Sonya:
All right, well watch this space.

Matthew Landers:
Yes.

Sonya:
Very exciting.

Matthew Landers:
Thanks so much for having me, I really appreciate it.

Sonya:
Thank you.