EPISODE 90 OF THE MARKETING SOLUTIONS PODCAST: MAKING AN UNSEXY PRODUCT WITH JESS RUHFUS FROM NO 2
Sonya:
Welcome to the Boom Your Biz Podcast! A podcast for the movers, the shakers and even bigger action takers in business. I'm your host, Sonya McIntyre-Reid and each week I'll be exploring the question of what really makes businesses and organizations thrive. I'm on a mission to educate, empower and inspire business owners and myself along the way.
Hello, everyone. I am on today with Jess Ruhfus. Jess, you have been on our podcast a couple of times now but we are getting you on to chat about a very different business model and a new business that you've started during COVID. So welcome, Jess.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me. This will be the first time I've sat down and spoken about the new biz.
Sonya:
Oh, my goodness. Okay. So, tell us about it, what is the business?
Jess Ruhfus:
Well, for anyone who doesn't know me, my regular day-to-day is a software company, so Collabosaurus match makes brands for clever marketing campaigns and this new product I've launched is absolutely nothing to do with that at all, it's a product based business called No.2, which is a post-flush perfume drop. So after you go to the bathroom, you pet a drop or two into the toilet and it smells amazing.
Sonya:
Oh my goodness. What a good idea. Okay. So we all studied back in the day at uni in that marketing campaign that went viral, the Poo-Pourri situation, does anyone remember that?
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes, I studied that too at uni.
Sonya:
Yes. So for anyone listening, we'll snippet a little bit of that video off on our Instagram, it's hilarious if you haven't seen it before, very clever. Now they were before you go to the toilet drops, these are after you go to the toilet drops.
Jess Ruhfus:
Well, they were a spray as well. So you spray it in before you go.
Sonya:
Got you.
Jess Ruhfus:
The Poo-Pourri . I've done a lot of research as part of it.
Sonya:
Yeah, my God. I bet you have. So do Poo-Pourri still exist?
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes, they do. They're worth over, oh my gosh, I think it's $240 million. They're big in the States, Adore Beauty over here stocks Poo-Pourri exclusively. But yeah, you can't really buy it anywhere else in Australia.
Sonya:
And is that why-
Jess Ruhfus:
And they're huge overseas.
Sonya:
Did you see a gap in the market? How did you get to this point where you thought, "Okay, I'm going to create No.2." Tell me about that.
Jess Ruhfus:
Well, I was in lockdown with two boys so something needed to be done. Look, I think it was a number of things that kind of came together and No.2 was born out of it, I suppose. Poo-Pourri is one of those products on the market that fills a particular niche and they've done a very great job with comedy and marketing the business in that way. But I hated that everything on the market, there's ViPoo, Poo-Pourri, even AESOP Post-Poo Drops. It all has the word poo in it and I hate that. That to me makes you want to hide the product away, you don't want to have it on display.
Sonya:
Exactly. It's not something that looks pretty, you know how people have air fresheners in your bathroom, you would not have a product that says poo sitting there in your bathroom.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes. And 99% of air fresheners have the most hideous packaging, they're disgusting and they're full of synthetic fragrances most of the time, they're made of plastic and harsh chemicals and you're breathing that in because often they're aerosols and stuff like that. So I loved that AESOP Post-Poo Drops, they're the only other drops on the market. And I thought, "Oh, they're the only ones really around that you would be happy to display." Because it's AESOP and it's a beautiful brand and the drops are stunning as well.
But when I bought the drops, I first of all didn't like that they had the word poo in it and also I didn't love ylang ylang, which is one of the main essential oils in that mix. And so I thought, "Oh, I wonder whether I could like create our own drops just at home as a bit of a hobby?" And then I ended up cracking a formula that I loved so much and then I was lucky enough to have some connections in the packaging world who could help me source some really beautiful bottles. And then it just kind of developed and it turned into a beautiful... I really wanted it to be something that worked, not only worked really well, but you are proud to display, I mean, it's stunning and it's very aesthetic.
Sonya:
I love that. And No.2, it's kind of like Chanel No.5 the poo drops, right?
Jess Ruhfus:
Exactly. So it's a little cheeky euphemism. But yeah, no use of the word poo anywhere.
Sonya:
Oh, love it. Okay, talk to me about developing the formula. Did you have to dive into the legislation and rules in Australia and was it hard?
Jess Ruhfus:
Oh my gosh. Yes.
Sonya:
It's a whole different world having a product based business versus software or service based, right?
Jess Ruhfus:
It is a whole other world and I tell you what I learned a lot about chemistry and how you can get oils to mix with different bases and, oh my gosh, it was actually really interesting. And I did it over of the course of the lockdown over Christmas, not the one just gone, the one before. I was just fiddling around with a couple of different formulas and just having a play just for something to do because low and behold I had three days off or something and I was like, "Oh, let's do this instead." So yeah, that was fun. But I learned a lot about the chemistry side of things, probably one of the major roadblocks with No.2 is that it's got an alcohol base, it's made from sugar cane but that makes it a Class 3 flammable liquid and so shipping No.2 is near impossible, it's really hard.
And I mean, you might remember anyone who runs hand sanitizer businesses throughout the pandemic, that's also a really high alcohol content but Australia Post made an exception for a short period of time over COVID to allow the shipping of hand sanitizers because of course everyone needed it and they just made an exception. But the actual rule is you can't ship that via Australia Post, you have to get special certification or you have to use other courier companies. So that's been a real roadblock because I haven't been able to go, "Okay, cool. We'll just sell it in the US and we'll sell it all over the world." It's not as easy as that, having a dangerous good product is a bit of a nightmare. Not impossible though, there's a solution to everything.
Sonya:
Yeah. Wow. Okay. So obviously you identified your niche, you went after the whole beautiful aesthetic, the packaging, all of that. What was your marketing plan to launch this product? And was it a bit of a learning curve versus what you've done in the past around your service base and software based businesses? How did that differ? I know that products are a very different, you've got different profit margins to work with as well. So how did that all unfold?
Jess Ruhfus:
Well, I think probably one of the biggest things that stood out to me is that with software, you can kind of build as you go and you have much more room to move within a minimum viable product. You can get people testing it and all that kind of stuff. And she sure I had friends testing No.2 but really to launch it, it had to be a complete product that I was very happy with. And of course, there's minimum water quantities if you ever get it manufactured. So the first 1,000 we handmade ourselves because I didn't want to have to order 5,000 and spend an absolute fortune in the tens of thousands of dollars. So we hand made the first batch ourselves, which took a long time and that was just a learning curve in itself. But yeah, you just have less... It's more kind of putting it out there and hoping that what you think is going to work and is going to be really great and you've heard from a couple of friends who've tried it, it's going to be really great that it actually sells. And so that was really good.
I did the MVP version of No.2 as much as I possibly can but I really noticed the difference between Collabosaurus, where you could build a little landing page or use type form or something to just whip up something really quick. It wasn't as easy as that to get a little MVP off the ground with No.2. And the other thing as well is that yeah, the margin thing and the planning for the financial budgeting and forecasting has been really difficult. It's frying my brain a little bit trying to work it out because there's such an upfront investment in stock. And then yeah, you've got your ongoing costs of running it, we have a fulfillment center and we have packaging and we have advertising running and all that kind of stuff. And of course, a Collabosaurus subscription, things like that. And that's really regular and predictable and monthly and that's how it's great to work off a Collabosaurus model because everything subscription based it's month to month to month, it's so easy to plan and forecast. But yeah, with No.2 it's very tricky and you've got shelf life to consider as well.
Sonya:
Oh my goodness, I know. I often have people come to me and they go, "I want to start a business, I'm going to do a product based business." I genuinely feel that product based businesses are the hardest to get off the ground and get traction and make profit out of. I think when you've got a service based business, like you said, you can pivot so easily, you can change. And God knows, we were talking earlier, I've pivoted a million times to work out what's going to work with me and I'll keep pivoting.
Jess Ruhfus:
Well, I think it's funny after I launched No.2, so many people and they were trying to be helpful and excited, they're like, "Oh, you should do three different scents and then you should also in incorporate a spray version or a room spray." And I'm like, "Guys, you don't realize every product iteration or a new skew costs tens of thousands of dollars to develop and release." Just because you think, "Oh, that could be cool." It's like, "Yeah, it could be cool. Is it worth tens of thousands of dollars worth of cool? I don't know."
Sonya:
Yeah. And I think what you've said around the minimum viable product. I mean, there's a lot of books out there around startups and this concept of just finding that one thing that works, scaling that up and then once you've got that profit coming in, then you can expand your range.
Jess Ruhfus:
Exactly.
Sonya:
But yeah, I think people think that you can just click your fingers and you can release the new product and it just does not work like that.
Jess Ruhfus:
And everyone's so, I think, in eCommerce, so reliant on paid social, so reliant on that. And I mean the Shopify report that just came out this year, I think it was 51 or 57% is what advertising is costing for the same results this year. It's absolutely crazy, it's an increase of, I think it's 51%. Which goes to show how advertising just cannot be your only, solo thing that you're relying on to scale the business, you have to work a multi-channel marketing approach and all that kind of stuff, which I preach with clients at Collabosaurus all day and it's so fun to be on the other side with the product and showing the results, especially off the back of collaborations.
I mean, of course I want No.2 to be this case study for Collabosaurus this time next year, where we can showcase probably near 20 collaborations we've been able to secure through the platform. I've already got six going at the moment from the first and that's five minutes a week on the platform, using the app, it's so easy. But it's so great to use it from a product perspective to be like, "Oh, okay. This is how it works." If you're using it from the lens of a product. And yeah, collaborations are of course, part of our marketing strategy as well, I'm really excited about a few that are coming.
Sonya:
Yeah. That's awesome. And I think as well, people will look at their marketing channels and their silos but they miss the opportunities. If you have done a collaboration with a brand, you have imagery that you can then use in your paid advertising or your newsletters or on your website or your organic social channels.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah.
Sonya:
Yeah, absolutely right. It's very hard just to rely on paid spend because things change so much. And I think people have such a focus as well on Facebook and Instagram ads. Guys, there are so many other platforms out there as well. And I mean, it's not talked about as much and it's not so sexy but Google Ads are absolutely fantastic. And then we're seeing platforms like Pinterest and TikTok as well with advertising come up through the ranks now too. But absolutely, if you can leverage someone else's audience or through an influencer or do a collaboration then you are getting the eyes on the product and getting that traffic to your website without that paid spend.
Jess Ruhfus:
Exactly.
Sonya:
And then I think when it comes to, okay, you're doing all this work front, you're driving traffic to the website, you're building that brand awareness. How important have you found to be the onsite experience with actually converting people?
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes, that's been interesting. I mean, we've only been running the site for three months or something for No.2 so I think all of our data is a little skewed to be very attractive because the first six weeks of purchases were purely friends, family and direct referrals. So of course, [crosstalk 00:13:48].
Sonya:
So you had a really high conversion rate?
Jess Ruhfus:
Exactly, 90% about traffic was converting. So that was really interesting. What I found to be a better measurable data point, I suppose, in those early few months was we stocked exclusively with one store in Manly, who's run by a friend of mine and it's called Black Store and it's a sustainably focused store. So everything in there is very much reusable, recyclable, sustainable, it's in that No.2 niche, absolutely. And it was interesting to see how products sold in there and how people interacted with the product in the store. I got some really interesting feedback from there and they're complete strangers.
So that was really good to test out as well. But yeah, look, the website has been... I built it on Shopify, it's been fantastic, love Shopify. As someone who has built custom software that, if we want to build a feature, it can take weeks to develop out and implement, sometimes months, with our custom software. Shopify, the app system and the marketplace is so clever and fantastic and easy to use for someone... I'm a little bit techy, I wouldn't say I'm super techy but I built that in a weekend and I was able to. Every time I got feedback, "Oh, there's a button missing here." Or it would be great to have, "Frequently Bought," together or bundles or things like that. There's an app for that in the Shopify marketplace that you can just plug in and it's super easy.
Sonya:
Absolutely. So when I have clients come to me and they're like, "Oh, I'm going to build my site on Squarespace or WooCommerce or Wix." I'm like, "No."
Jess Ruhfus:
Depends what you're selling.
Sonya:
Oh.
Jess Ruhfus:
I think if you're a service based business, Squarespace can be beautiful.
Sonya:
Oh my God. Absolutely. And I love Squarespace, I love WordPress for service based businesses as well. But when it comes to eCommerce, in my opinion, there is no other option, just trust me. We'll be having the conversation... If you go away and build it on something else, 12 months time we'll be having the conversation where you need to rebuild on Shopify.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah. Well, I mean, there was a time, I remember when I left my marketing job websites cost easily $5,000, you'd have to just expect to pay $5,000 to go to a website built. And really Shopify's so user friendly that you can get a website up that looks beautiful and converts easily by yourself in a weekend.
Sonya:
Absolutely. I think to do that you need to make sure that you've got beautiful product photography, which you obviously do.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes, that was going to be my next point.
Sonya:
And then I think as well, your copy and your messaging. So I think a lot of people that up a website and they're not thinking about, "Okay, what's the first thing someone's seeing when they land on the page and how are you actually funneling them into purchase?" And looking at your mobile device and going, "Okay, is it easy for them to add it to card?" It's like a quick checkout. What's that process? So I think putting yourself in the space of the consumer, how easy is it for me to get from point A to B, find what I need and check out? How quickly can I buy a product? Essentially is what you need to be asking.
Jess Ruhfus:
And I mean, back in the day going, "I have to spend $5,000 on a website." Redirect that spend to content, get the beautiful imagery done, that was so worth doing. We did that in collaboration with Create Creme Agency and they created the most stunning photography suite for us that has lasted easily three months on social media, organic content. We've got all of our website stuff, our stockist info, proposals, all that kind of stuff has used that imagery and lent on it and it communicates the brand in an instant. We digest visuals so much faster than we do text and if you're going to invest in anything, I would invest in great content.
Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. And I love that you're going down the path of not just viewing this as an online store, you are also seeking the stockists as well. And in our experience with the agency, the businesses that have stockists or their own brick and mortar store as well will see that their e-commerce takes off far more. Because it's kind of like that brand trust, it's still a little bit like, "Oh, I've never heard of this brand before," when you visit a random e-commerce site but if you've seen it stocked elsewhere, you've got collaborations, whatever it might be, there's that trust.
Jess Ruhfus:
It's a whole other channel.
Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). It absolutely is. Were you always planning on having stockists or did you initially think, "Oh, just do e-commerce."
Jess Ruhfus:
I was open to stockists, I think I have in mind my north star stockist that I think I'd love to have in there for the alignment more than anything and the reach. Because I think being in this e-commerce world now, it's so easy to get caught up in margins, which you absolutely need to be aware of, for sure your margins drive a lot of your decision making and I think it can be very easy for a product based business to go, "I just want to do e-commerce because you earn double the margin." It's easier to earn more money off any individual sale. However, you are limited in your marketing channels and I kind of think, "Well, stockists, if we can still cover our costs and make a little bit on every product that stockist then a marketing channel for us as well."
And we're selling more in one go. So I suppose you just have to weigh up your options a little bit. I would definitely consider a stockist. I mean, looking at the finances it's kind of like, "Oh, okay. We don't earn as much on every product and you have to limit how many products go to stockists because otherwise we wouldn't be able to cover our costs and stuff like that." However, I view them as marketing channels for sure and that's how they've been working so far.
Sonya:
And I think if people love your product that they've purchased through a stockist then they're going to seek you out and your website out and buy directly from you down the line anyway.
Jess Ruhfus:
Exactly. It's brand awareness.
Sonya:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). 100%. Jess, you mentioned to me before that between you and your partner, you guys are running five businesses at the moment. How do you do it? What's your daily routine? How, how?
Jess Ruhfus:
I mean, there's no daily routine other than getting a coffee in the morning. I think we both just love it, it's one of those things where I don't have many hobbies outside because I love the business side of things, that is like a hobby for me. In saying that though, I mean, my 08:00 till 17:00 is Collabosaurus so it's not like it's really interfering ever in the day to day. But it's No.2 is the kind of thing I would tinker away on a weekend or stuff like that. And then I help Matt with his bookkeeping after work. So I'm doing stuff like that because he runs a gardening business.
So yeah, there's lots of little things and I think they all feed into each other really. I mean, using Collabosaurus on behalf of No.2 on the app has given me so many great insights and ideas for the Collabosaurus software. And then this other little website I'm tinkering away at will plug into Collabosaurus. So it's like they all kind of go hand in hand and feed each other. So yeah, I just find it really interesting. I don't know, I prioritize sleep for sure, I have to have eight hours of sleep a night otherwise I'm cranky, you don't want to be around me, I'm a cranky Miranda [Freesly 00:21:31] if I don't get sleep.
Sonya:
Yeah. I can relate to that. And also the coffee first thing in the morning, I think it's about having these little anchors in your day-
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes.
Sonya:
... that even if there's a million other crazy things happening at the time. And I think I'm the same people go, "What are your hobbies?" "I work."
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah. As long as you love it-
Sonya:
Absolutely.
Jess Ruhfus:
... I don't there's anything wrong with that.
Sonya:
Absolutely. And then it doesn't feel like work, right?
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes.
Sonya:
You're inspired by it, you're motivated, you're energized.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yes. Exactly. And it gives you creative ideas elsewhere, which is great. And for your other businesses,
Sonya:
I love that you've become your own consumer or your own client with this product for Collabosaurus and absolutely using it as a case study, what a fantastic idea 12 months down the line.
Jess Ruhfus:
It's been so interesting. I mean, we did an Instagram post the other day about some of the collaborations we've secured for No.2 in the first two months using it for five minutes a week and how that's been generating some fabulous partnerships but also reach and marketing opportunities for No.2 that don't cost anything. So that's been really good. And, of course I've tested Collabosaurus before but I've always tested it with the lens of, "Oh, what would I do if I was a product business?" But it's a different lens than actually having a real life product business and getting stuck at a point because there's no dropdown option for a particular thing I'm looking for, of course there's no post-flush perfume drop selection item, a dropdown list. So it's like, "Okay, well what would I do in this situation? Would I leave the website?" So it's been very good to have that case study.
And so fun sexing up an unsexy topic, I suppose too. That's been really interesting and I look to so many other industry spaces that have been able to do that with shaving and Billie has come out and made that cool and then Modibodi with periods and Moxi as well have done such a great job with it. Rosewell is just such a stunningly aesthetic, just beautiful sexual wellness brand that have really great values at their core and stuff as well. So there's so many examples around, I think more and more those taboo topics are being shaken up and made desirable.
Sonya:
Yeah. And I guess for you, that's where you really pinpointed that niche. I mean, you found one product with AESOP that you liked but still it had poo in it.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah.
Sonya:
Jess, you have now worked across service based businesses, software and product. If you were to start from scratch, which kind of business model would you go down?
Jess Ruhfus:
Oh my gosh. I think-
Sonya:
I know, [crosstalk 00:24:22] question.
Jess Ruhfus:
I think because I've been doing software for quite a long time, I do really love that and I love getting into the consumer behavior and psychology behind user experience and customer experience and using a particular software. In saying that though, that does translate across to physical experiences and stuff as I do find really interesting. I just love that you have data available when it comes to software, so much more data available. So I think if I had to only do one thing, it would probably be software but I'm one of those multi passionate people that I like doing lots of different things. So I wouldn't have it any other way, I like doing all of them at the moment.
Sonya:
And as you said, those skills picked up with the software side of things are transferable across every industry, pretty much. I think being in business, you're starting from the ground up and you're having to learn everything then it is going to be transferable.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah. And something that's been quite different with No.2 to Collabosaurus, like starting No.2 versus starting Collabosaurus. Collabosaurus was always started with the view of it being my full-time job, I wanted to be able to quit my marketing job and move into Collabosaurus full-time and build that into a ginormous global brand. Whereas No.2, I can take my time with it because it's one of those side projects that I'm like, "Yeah, I want it to be really successful of course but I never expected it to fund my day to day or anything like that." I'm doing it more as a hobby than anything else.
And so the pressure's off with trying things and I think I can imagine the stress of running a product based business from scratch, from the ground up where you have to invest so much in stock and then rely on sell, sell, sell, sell, selling that stock to eat, it's a whole other kettle of fish. So I think I've really enjoyed that with No.2, that it can be a slow brand build, I can take my time, I can be really considered and not rush the efforts to scale, I suppose. I can do it in a way that I really want to do it because it's that little side project.
Sonya:
Yeah, that's so true. It's such a big investment front with product based businesses.
Jess Ruhfus:
It's huge. It's absolutely huge.
Sonya:
That's right.
Jess Ruhfus:
People don't realize.
Sonya:
No, they don't. They really don't, I think they think it's going to be an easy, scalable business model and it is very challenging but if you get it right, it can be incredibly successful and fulfilling. Jess, are you reading any good books at the moment?
Jess Ruhfus:
Oh my gosh. The last book I read was probably about eight months ago but it was Samantha Wills Of Gold and Dust and that was so fantastic, I absolutely loved it. So I highly recommend it anyone looking for a book. It's a businessy book but it's more of a memoir. So it's really interesting about her experience building and selling Samantha Wills and how she came to that decision. And what I want to read next, which everyone I know has told me, I have to this book and I still haven't is Shoe Dog.
Sonya:
Oh my God. We just-
Jess Ruhfus:
I feel like-
Sonya:
Yes. We just read it, we have an agency book club so we've just finished Shoe Dog. Seriously. Fantastic. It's so good.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah, I've got to get onto it. I've been looking for it, Matty went to the library the other day and he's like, "It's not there." And I'm just like, "Oh, I'm just going to have to go buy it."
Sonya:
No, it's great. The first few chapters you're like, "All right, come on, Phil. Get to the point." He waffles on a little bit-
Jess Ruhfus:
Oh, okay.
Sonya:
... but it all kind of fills in and the amount of time, and this is a great example, a product based business, he went years and years without making any money and just investing everything back into the business and having times where he just trying to juggle finances and all the sales he'd get, he'd have to reinvest back into stock but then they'd need greater stock than what they'd ordered before so the sales couldn't fund. It was just this whole balancing act for years and years and years until they built to the point that they went public. And I think there are so many people that would've been through he went through and just gone, "No, it's too hard." But he just dug in, believed in it and just kept going.
Jess Ruhfus:
That's awesome. And I mean, there's an element of you do need to reinvest. Collabosaurus has reinvested in itself, I've hardly taken any salary for six years really because I chose to reinvest in certain features and stuff. But I think you have a lot more flexibility with how much you necessarily need to spend, it's not like I have to order 20,000 units of stock, it's, "I think this little feature we can build a mini MVP of this one feature within the bigger software." And it's bit by bit, it's more stepped out, I think, than the ginormous investments that are required in product based business. I hope I'm not turning anyone off product based business, I really like it.
Sonya:
Oh my gosh. No, not at all. I just think it's important to talk about all the things that people potentially haven't thought about. I think in terms of the positives with product based businesses, there's that ability to scale with consistency that you don't have with service based businesses, right? So you are scaling as a service based business, a giant chunk of your revenue is going to go towards staff. Yeah, there are overheads with staff when it comes to product based businesses but there are elements that you can outsource with the manufacturing, the fulfillment centers, that kind of thing. And then you've got your internal customer service and marketing. So there definitely are positives, definitely.
Jess Ruhfus:
I loved with this business, for 6 years with Collabosaurus, it's been B2B and a lot of my friends don't run businesses and so they just think, "Oh, that's cool." But I can't talk to them about Collabosaurus really because they're just like, "I have no idea what this is or does." Whereas No.2, it's that physical thing that you can give someone which is so underrated as a joy and I loved that with launching No.2, that friends of mine who I always just assumed they just weren't interested in business because I'd just yabber on about Collabosaurus all the time. They were all sharing No.2 and buying some for their friends and stuff and it was a physical thing that they could be like, "Oh my gosh, this is awesome." So I just absolutely adore that with a product business and having something physical that you can create experiences around.
Sonya:
Yes. I love that. A really good point. I guess when you are working in software or even service based in the B2B space, you're right, it's kind of like this concept that's not really tangible.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah. And it's like explaining to my grandma or my parents, it's like, "Oh, I run a website that connects brands." They're like, "Uh-huh (affirmative)." Whereas with No.2, I can just bring some over and be like, "Put it in the bathroom."
Sonya:
Yeah, "Here you go."
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah.
Sonya:
Oh, I love it.
Jess Ruhfus:
And the toilet is my dad's sanctuary. Him and his wife are the perfect test cases for it.
Sonya:
Oh my God. I'm sure he'd love to know that. You've just said that on a podcast.
Jess Ruhfus:
You're welcome dad. He knows it.
Sonya:
So Jess, where can we find No.2? What is the website? What's social media handles? Tell me all the things.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah. So social media handle are No.2_co and our website you'll find via social media if you like, but it's also No-2.co. So the dots and dashes are all over the place because of course that domain name is very hard to get, sorry. Good luck, see if you can find us. We're doing some SEO stuff at the moment so hopefully we're ranking.
Sonya:
Awesome. We'll go check that out. Well, Jess, thank you so much for coming on, it's always great to have a chat and hearing what you've been up to.
Jess Ruhfus:
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. And I've got to send you some NO.2 and see what you think.
Sonya:
Sounds great.